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Thanks JesseG.
I’m in Australia. We have a category of services here called MF NAS. MF = Medium Freq, NAS = Narrowband Area Service.
These are from 1611khz to 1701 in 9khz steps. They are not traditional broadcasting services. They are 400 watts and limited to an audio bandwdith rolled of at around 3.5/4.5khz. In theory they should be totally sub standard to a "proper" AM service.But purchasing gear set for "SW spec" works a treat! I’m refering to the 5khz roll off and then the NRSC curve that was designed to bring back a little brightness. AM Radio (traditonal) here doesn’t have the NRSC curve as standard here. I think it was voluntary in the states but now it’s a must. From my fiddling I’d say it’s a must!
I hand no idea you had something biult into the preset i hope i understand that right. It would be much better for us simpler folk to just have a button.
thanks heaps
Hehe we love 240 VAC here too in Australia. Also the money saved on not needing as thick a copper wires!
What bearing does that have on the audio processing done by the box itself?
Yep Edcast all the way!! Been working here for years! Don’t use 32k as the bitrate!! Drop it to 24k you will thank me!
I’m one that hates pour reproduced top end. I’d rather it not be there. I’ve experimented with this a bit. 24k mp3 with audio processed for AM (filtered at 7.5khz I’m in Australia) sounds spot on for feeding to a 24k stream. Sounds exactly like AM radio with no shimmy sounding crappy tops!
32kaac+ is just sad. 48kaac+ will work for mono. 64kaac+ for stereo minimum
Bamp, What the guys are saying is correct to a point. The part where the Barix sounds rubbish is definitely not true. I’ve run small remote stations in towns streaming across a VPN for years! It works! But you must not skimp on the bitrate. If you want to feed an FM TXer 128k mp3 is good enough for MONO. It then requires you to have waves as the audio source files. This will kick but. However if you want stereo the bitrate can’t come under 160.
To be honest I have Barix boxes in the remotes and Breakaway Broadcast setup with Edcast streaming to the remotes the pre-emph is set for 50us and this goes straight into the TXers. This is for a mate that runs http://www.heartlandfm.com. I however take no responsiblity for the crappy files he gets from suss places.
To answer your first question about what player? The Barix are the go!! No messing about!! Winamp will stop every now and then as it feels like!!! Then you need something to sense no audio and reboot the pc or just winamp. Bottom line it’s work you don’t need to do. The barix with Streaming Client firmaware is the go. It will pull from 3 different urls and the third one is a USB Stick for when the network drops totally. They do all the hard work. The main url drops it falls to the second then failing that to the USB. If it gets as far as the USB it will play the whole song and come back to the first url when it’s played in full.
If you got your own Wifi link from the studio to tx er then use the RTP streaming. This is different to mp3 and has low latency and very close to WAVE quality! But it needs good network speed and no jitters!!! mp3 will be bullet proof compared to RTP on a network with jitters. You gotta work out what you want rugged or sharpness!
cheers
Ok Lief thanks mate. Yes the link would undo all the nice work of Breakaway – true. I think we need to accept that. So that is why I sort of figured sharing the work load between the two should be ok. I’d concider dropping back to Live if it wasn’t going to public too.
Thanks mate.
I’m a little confused Leif. The pc’s are coming out. There will be a mixed bag of AM or FM TXers on the end of the feed. HF limiting must be done on site for whatever the TXer is for that site. Plus a little gain between the Barix and the TXer would be nice. Some TXers need a little more oomph to run them.
Pete
Thanks Leif,
So don’t put it all in a second folder? Leave it where it is and make – dsp_edcast2.dll for example.
Cheers
pete
Leif,
You are close in your assumptions on the computer pricing. We have been using standalone pc’s out there with a simple muzo type compressor infront of the TXers for ages. Problem is the cost fo the pc to run Breakaway Broadcast and Jazler the playout software. It needs to be a decent machine as you know. This idea is not favoured even back at the studio! Running the two needs some serious CPU and is still in the 1000+ dollar range. Plus it’s a PC. We are trying to get rid of them in the field.
Streaming over the VPN with a constant trickle is the preferred way. It brings down the ability to localise but ups the ez and abiltiy to update and freshen up the program content. We only have 64k upload & 512k download ADSL speed available at the sites over the VPN. So dumping a stack of files in the back of several machines for local news etc will take forever. We tried it.
As this all comes down to cost. I can’t see a better way. Breakaway Broadcast at the studio (seperate machine to play out). With the pre-emph turned down to 15 so it still does a little. But the final say is done on site for whatever the service is AM or FM. I only suggested inovonics as it was a mono unit and we have had one here to play with. It worked ok.
Don’t forget Leif there is a mix of AM /FM TXers hanging off the VPN feed and there is the public streams. You are probably right. There is a fiar amount of "brand loyalty" for the big gun stuff. Doesn’t mean it’s delivering 😉
PS I know this means Breakaway Live might be all we need at the studio instead of Broadcast. But there will be public streams (outside the VPN stuff) so I plan to set Broadcast to 15us. And go Medium – Vary light on the reduction out at the sites. I still think Broadcast is the one for streaming. The added bonus of the sparkle in the tops is nice on the streams even though you really don’t need the pre-emph for the main reason its there (FM). It’s is a real nice bonus!!
Pete
Hi Leif,
Mate much debate has gone into this. This is for a small station with remote services in regional towns. Some don’t go over 4000 people. So there is a question of economics. Having said that I’m very much an advocate of "there is no reason for a regional to have a substandard audio quality service".
These are FM services so we need to observe the 50us for Australian FM. There will be AM services on there too (more on that later). For the reasons of cost with the ISP (and upload bandwidth at the studio). We will only be sending them one stream out from the studio. The ISP has a Shoutcast server on a linux box at their datacentre for us. This is the common point where all sites hookin to the stream as any listner would. This is a VPN setup by the ISP so no download fees as it’s not public. Just the costs of ADSL connections per end and little to them for running it. Not bad really, you could have 10+ of these VPN’s for the cost of a single 128k sat time.
Because of the one feed sending to FM and AM. I’ve settled on the Inovonics 222 (NRSC) AM compliance limters for both AM & FM (eh?). Yes that’s right! My reason is because we are only mono on FM as power is low in these towns and we need it to cover a BIG distances. I don’t need a stereo unit. Also the curve that is applied to get the boost for AM at the US AM standard is the same Pre-emph curve used for FM. (No imagination there) But lucky for me!! A simple mod to the Inovonics 222 at the factory and the Hi Freq roll off is defeated and the curve is still there. Presto MONO FM HF Limiter. Just spending 3500+ dollars for an Aphex Dominator didn’t cut it here. It’s stereo (we don’t need it) so for the same outlay we get 3 x 222 boxes.
Oh! The 222’s doing what they were really designed to do will be infront of the AM ers. The bandwidth for them is 5khz as they are not reall broadcasting services. They are off the top of the dial by our rules here. So we observe the SW setting there and everyone is happy.
Regards
PeteThanks Leif,
Yes it has been working in the "recording from dsp" mode. With no problems.
Let’s see if I get it right!
"Recording from DSP" with Edcast means it is ALWAYS getting the de-emphed version? I wasn’t sure this was happening as turning off the de-emph did nothing on the streams. I was suss as via headphones plugged into the soundcard it did.
As long as the "amount" changes on the streams I should be right. We intend on using Breakaway infront of a network of Barix boxes feeding FM & AM txers (yeah just to keep me on my toes). Final HF limiting to be done on site for the type of service it is. I’ll explain further if you want me to.
Cheers
PeteI’m not sure if this has been thought of. But Ots has it’s own processor biult in. Has anyone looked into that?
I didn’t ask Lief. But seriously for what was around at the time it’s leaps ahead of Sound Solution and the likes. I’ve even tried VST plugins via a bridge for Winamp’s DSP. JB Broadcast is tops but it cann’t be saved and reverts to default when re opened.
Thanks for the reload tip. That’s all you gotta remember to do, just reload and all is good!
I’ll give "live" ago but I’m really sold on the pre-emph trick. Does great things for streams too. Even though it’s not needed technically. Might want to think about the quirks of mp3 encoding in this area.
Cheers
Pete
I believe you may have the same problem. I didn’t like the Rock preset for similar reasons. I’ve only slightly modified the FB Hit Radio 4 preset. The only issue I have is the tops still get a little out of hand. I really believe the key is the pre-emphasis limiting of Breakaway Broadcast to be the saving grace. Even though people say it’s not needed for streaming, I would strongly disagree. In my use of trialling the Breakaway I still ran the pre-emph at 50 as that is the standard for FM here in Australia. I noticed a little diference on the streams in the "presence" and "tops" when changing the pre-emphasis settings. I fully believe that whilst a broadcast processor is the best fix it isn’t the "exact" animal for the job. Streaming and the nature of mp3 encoders need to be biult into a product like Breakaway. That day will truly bring things ahead. But for now leaving the pre-emph "on" is what’s doing the trick!
I never ran Thomas limiter for more that 5 minutes, that was all it took to realise it’s not in the same ball park.
I was wondering if I had missed a couple of tweaks for the old Octimax. God knows I never got a manual for it.
Cheers
Pete
http://www.stationx.com.au – is where you can find my streams
