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spl 9526-bbp asio audiofreak setting dance.mp3
The bass lacks punch big time. It’s partly because the SPL is making it too dense, and partly because you’re using phase tornado.
Phase tornado is NOT good. It was created to allow people to hear one of the aspects of the bad sound that a certain new 31-band processor has. It is destroying the phase relationships across the whole spectrum, which blurs the impact that the transients have… not to mention it makes all of the transients sound like lasers. Even piano.
What preset are you using, and what "Main Window" settings? There’s actually halfway impacting bass at 8:39 till 9:06 when the treble comes in, which tells me the adaptive bass clipping in the final clipper is getting over worked. In other words, you might have the final drive too high and/or have the other settings adjusted in a way that makes the effect too prominent. I’ll make some recommendations when I see your settings.
spl 9526-bbp asio audiofreak setting piraat.mp3
definitely a little too far on the final drive here, but hard to tell as much cos of how just plain wrong phase tornado sounds. now sure what preset this is either… it’s pumping a lot tho. not sure if that’s what you want, but the increase in bass from the SPL, and the total screw up of phase tornado, is making it pump even worse. the density on the treble is a bit much for my taste, but it is consistent which is nice to hear, but since the midrange is pumping it makes it inconsistent and overall it sounds way way too thin. would also appreciate a screenshot of these settings.
orban8500 testaudiofreak.mpg
Did I mention that I like LEDs?
dance orban 8500.mp3
much less of a V shape. quite a bit more distortion, and less clarity up top… but i have to say it sounds better than your SPL/Tornado/Breakaway setup… because -A- it doesn’t have the SPL pushing the bass and treble WAY too far, and -B- the bass is clearer because there’s no tornado and less density before hand.
piraten orban 8500.mp3
also more balanced here, much less V shape. it’s not pumping like the way you have Breakaway set, and also more clear for all frequencies partly because of better midrange and mostly because there’s no crap-tornado. quite a bit more distorted on the vocals on that 2nd track.
at least just from listening, it sounds like what’s happening is Breakaway is having the potential to blow away the Orban (it does) but it’s not being allowed to do so because you’re applying bad processing (phase tornado) and too much processing (the SPL)
I took the liberty of adding "Preset Used" to your list. This is information that would be needed to reproduce the problem for our own ears. 🙂
[quote author=”X-Hosted”]Is there any preset/setting in live thats close to our current sound? We’d like to keep our sound like this but ‘update’ the technical side a bit.[/quote]
There’s presets that sound similar but better. There’s some pumping and hole punching problems with the sound you guys have now. Also, Breakaway itself just sounds cleaner.In the settings there is also several modes for latency. Try some of the lower latency modes, at the slight expense in the quality of the clipping used.
As far as for live stage use, what really would be great is to see ASIO support come to Breakaway Live. Then you would have super duper low latency, not to mention a decent speaker controller in one.
Hmm, I have to wonder if it would already be lower latency. Have you tried it yet?
It sounds like you need to change/update your mic processing strategies then. Each processing and each preset sounds different, and if you want to have a specific vocal sound, then you need to compensate your voice processing to accommodate. Common sense.
I haven’t heard the new Stereo Tool. But from Orban and Omnia’s current *public* offerings, I wouldn’t call any of their MPX clippers "advanced". There are some upcoming products that are more advanced which I am not at liberty to discuss.
And like Leif said… let’s hear what they sound like with glockenspiel and other hard to process material.
[quote author=”Leif”][quote author=”celar”]WOW- fantastic, I never knew you had to move the mic around while calibrating.[/quote]There are those who disagree with me on this. My take is that if you calibrate with a stationary mic, you calibrate for ONE ear in exactly that position, and if you move two inches you need to recalibrate, because it won’t be valid. 🙂[/quote]
Since I haven’t posted in this topic yet (lol) I will say that I don’t disagree with you. You’re right, but… (there’s always a butt)Some speakers are more pronounced in this effect in the room they are in than others. For instance fully horn loaded, time aligned, single point source speakers have nearly zero boundary effect or any other bad effect caused by the outside of the box itself. Boundary effects are mostly the problem with a more conventional speaker in a space. The more boundaries you are near, the more this effect can be bad. Sometimes it can actually be a good thing too, like for subwoofers, but it has to be very carefully and intelligently setup to increase the output while only making the bass extend without screwing up the frequency response (or only making the frequency response flatter)… and yes, you will need to check for room modes etc, especially the smaller the room gets from say… the size of a stadium. (and even those can have room modes sometimes, been there, done that)
Personally in this day & age, I wouldn’t run the box. Imho it’s NOT current at all. It was first introduced in the 1980s so…
Anyways, when used with Breakaway BBP I know the gain in loudness would not be much, but the loss in clarity would be huge. And once the Breakaway hardware comes out with the MPX clipping, forget about it. (but it’s still only a 1-2db gain in loudness)
[quote author=”Q106″]Don’t think Leif would be a player, after all, he already has the best product and nothing beats being your own boss.[/quote]
That and… Leif already technically works for Telos/Omnia via licensing his processing to Linear Acoustic which has over 75% market share in digital television right now. You really don’t think he licenses it to them, and helps them develop new products, for free… ?? 😆-J
p.s. he already worked for Orban, on the 8400 project.
NAB is less than 2 months away, so we’ll see what everyone brings to the table, won’t we. 8)
One thing I might add is that Optimod 8600’s
quote :advanced technology requires more input-to-output delay than the older structures, so it is impractical for talent to monitor these structures off-air with headphones.but Breakaway ASIO is already capable of lower latency than full latency 8500 presets. So chew on that for a while.
[quote author=”Boki”]EdCast is good ..
need some tweaks to be stable .. but works.Try our Omnia test stream SAM + Edcast + Omnia A/X
Ofcourse BBP is better.[/quote]Omnia A/X, or Omnia A/XE? Stream sounds way too V-shaped. Needs a lot more midrange.
Cos Omnia is giving free upgrade to A/XE which also comes with encoders. Not sure why you wouldn’t be using that new version unless you stole from Omnia. 🙄
[quote author=”tngdj”]Smaller, more compact gui to include the bypass without having to go to another screen;[/quote]
Single left-click on the system tray icon, and click bypass. 😉[quote author=”tngdj”]the eq GUI would be much more effective if it looked and operated like a standard everyday garden variety type eq (sliders up and down versus its current left and right bubble.[/quote]
But that would be a graphic EQ with fixed Q widths and fixed frequencies. The Breakaway speaker EQ is a parametric EQ and is much more powerful and lets you get exactly the EQ sound you want. Not to mention you usually need less filters, which adds less to the sound. A graphic EQ won’t allow you to get exactly the EQ you want.[quote author=”tngdj”]I like it. I’m keeping it and am looking forward to see what it does in a large venue.[/quote]
wait till you hear it on a decent system. 😉 it isn’t even worth comparing to anything you compared it to, including Virtual DJ’s auto crap. by the way… the reason the Virtual DJ EQs distort is because they don’t have much headroom… in addition there is a quite bad brick-wall limiter on the main outputs.if you want to get optimum quality (without switching to something that sucks a lot less than Virtual DJ), turn off all possible automatic leveling & eqing, and run mp3Gain (non destructive) on your tracks down to 89dB or less (83dB is the standard loudness that CDs were designed for fyi). this will give Virtual DJ EQs some headroom to work with. then make sure you are mixing with a target LKFS of -24dB which is the international standard for program loudness, and that will prevent almost any chance that you will hit Virtual DJ’s brickwall limiter. The input loudness meters on Breakaway are LKFS, in case you hadn’t noticed, and there’s a "dial norm" control in the settings which alters a few things like the thresholds for the multiband downward expander (aka noise reduction). 🙂
Breakaway will bring the levels up to sound very nice & loud all on its own, and with Breakaway DJ the levels and presets are optimized for larger systems. That’s why you don’t find any of the "louder" presets in there, yet. Some may be tweaked for DJ purposes, some probably wont because it doesn’t make sense to do, like New York.
Try this out, and let us know how it goes. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. There’s a reason that Breakaway’s core is in $15,000 processors used on everything from the SuperBowl and the Olympics to the Grammy’s and over 75% of all digital TV… and that these guys are all using loudness standards for every step of the production that are put there to ensure there will be more than enough headroom for the peaks. 8)
[quote author=”Otto”]You can use the attenuator plugins to bring the volume down…[/quote]
but that won’t add headroom to the analog inputs. 😉Sure, but you’ll still run out of headroom (and distort) if it’s too loud, or you’ll get too much noise if it’s too quiet. And Breakaway already handles those adjustments for you.
I once had a friend that was working master control over a LIVE feed of one George W. Bush, going out to the world. I dared him to insert 2-3 frames of porno into the feed, and he indicated it would have been akin to signing his own death warrant. 😆 (of course it was a joke)
But yeah, "mission critical" is still applicable, for a Presidential feed, a $20,00,000 plant, or a 100 watt LPFM (which wishes to remain compliant). No differences in what *should* be done. Just sometimes what *is* done.
AdamH, check your PMs. 🙂
