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There shouldn’t be any distortion in the current version according to the latest software topic.
Try investigating the speaker controller. 🙂
Yes they have an INI. Breakaway also uses its own ini code because built in windows methods end up being bad when there’s any real amount of data stored in one. Long story short, it doesn’t write/update the INI file to the drive until Breakaway is closing. 8) As such, you’ll want to probably make a copy, edit that, and then copy it back over while Breakaway is closed.
full bandwidth sounds nice, i’m still happy despite the current "advanced" stuff starting to come into the plugin market. i’m glad that stuff is coming out too. 8)
Slate Digital FG-X, and Airwindows NC-17 & 4DClip, to name a couple…
in some ways the Optimod 9100 had better clipping in analog, so they have a ways to go. but the aesthetic is nice for mastering, and of course leif will try to be competitive.
Camclone… All of your concerns are valid. And you may be right even though some proof isn’t properly there, and you may even be confused as well as sigmacom.
For instance…
[quote author=”sigmacom”]If a very-very low frequency signal is clipped for e.g. 10mS, shifts the FM carrier and holds it there steady for 10mS. This amount of time is enough to trick a frequency meter instrument, and report that the carrier is not at the desired frequency (can show about 1kHz offset or more). This is what camclone have seen at Pira75 gadget.[/quote]
But a 10ms clipping is NOT a "very-very low frequency signal"… that’s 100Hz if it were a square wave. From what sigmacom also said in his replies, your bass is getting very close to sounding like square-waves.So basically what he’s saying is the signal causing your Pira75 to say that there’s drifting can even be as high as 100 Hz. That’s a big problem with the Pira75, no?
[quote author=”sigmacom”]If you give 20 Hz 2Vpp square wave audio, a perfect linear modulator will force the carrier to be at 100,075kHz for 25mS and at 99,925kHz for another 25mS. If you try to measure the output frequency, you will find it mostly at 100 MHz, but sometimes you may see a slightly drifted frequency. This depends on how fast your frequency meter is. The faster the meter is -> larger drifting is shown.[/quote]
Here again he’s bringing up a very valid point. This time he’s using 40 Hz. This is basically right below the point where your high-pass at 45 Hz is set to, where it’s starting to drop down to LESS sub-harmonic content/noise than any other processor on the market. So 40-45 Hz is where your problem is starting at. Not DC or 1 Hz.[quote author=”sigmacom”]His settings to produce tremendous amount of bass on air, produce constantly very strong low frequency components that cause his exciter to be for a long time away from it’s specified center frequency. This is readable with a frequency meter as "frequency drift", and he found some receivers that don’t stop at his station while scanning the band.[/quote]
This is what he’s saying, is that your settings are producing these very strong (almost square) low frequency components. (from what I heard on your stream, it’s doing this ALL of the time too, and i think your stream is just de-emphasized L/R output of breakaway, and i’m VERY familiar with that encoder’s artifacts, and it ~doesn’t effect what i’m talking about) I think you (and possibly sigmacom) might be severely over-estimating how low they really are, as Leif’s example shows is the case. Combined with your Pira75 saying your sound is FM drift even as high as 100 Hz…I’m sorry you get upset that the problem is above the high-pass, but it’s the only thing that makes sense, and sigmacom’s analysis does NOT disagree with me.
PM me your settings if you want to, so I can look at it in a few things…
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[quote author=”ASchuelke”]Well, there ya go. 🙄[/quote]
… le sighIt all comes down to… if you want to have it *sound* perceptively like abusive levels of bass, then fine. But if you’re actually broadcasting abusive levels of actual bass (/me waves to camclone) then you get what you deserve.
There are tricks to getting both without problems, like using a higher high-pass filter like the 45 Hz option, and getting FLAT calibrated monitoring & room to properly judge the perceived spectral balance.
Perception of bass, and actual bass, are two different things. Breakaway will allow you to get both or either, in whatever way you want to balance it out.
Camclone has one big flaw in his argument, and it is that he has never proven:
-1- that his transmitted signal has enough drift to cause a problem, and professional measurement gear has shown that his own measurement gear is greatly exaggerating any problem
-2- failed to show that the radio with tuning problems is compliant to FM standards and isn’t a piece of crap
-3- failed to show any actual proof of a connection in between that radio, and any actual frequency drift on the signalAm I wrong? I’m not saying that the last 2 things above are true or false, I’m just saying that you are coming to certain conclusions with no proof at all that there is a connection of a problem that your own measurement gear has been proven to be way over-exaggerating.
The other indicator that it’s the problem of the person that’s making Breakaway sound the way that it does, which might be causing problems… you have said yourself that you’re not able to get anywhere near close to the same bass sound with any other processor.
Did you ever think that maybe the sound itself, real or fake bass both, is maybe the problem? Maybe you can’t get that sound without having problems, period?? Have you thought about that? Have you ever heard another radio station with a bass like yours that hasn’t had problems with certain potentially CRAP radio tuners?
If you have, I strongly encourage you to analyze the spectral content. I think you’ll find that they have a lot of fake bass, and not even close to as much real bass as you do. The clipping will look very different, and be much faster between + and – sections.
The problem is not the existing high-pass filtering, or the sub-harmonic content, as Leif already proved by filtering out, and there was virtually no change at all in the peak signal levels. He is also correct when he says there is LESS subharmonic content from Breakaway than any other processor on the market right now. That is not the problem, period.
The problem is above the high-pass filter. 😉
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I’m not going to talk about this problem you’re having anymore, unless you want to talk about how to try and fix it, because it’s not Breakaway’s fault. It’s how Breakaway is getting used. And that’s all you dawg.
Leif is insanely busy.
I can leak one tidbit of information though; there won’t be any more builds at all from the old codebase, quick or otherwise. Forward is the correct direction. 8)
[quote author=”ASchuelke”]I seem to have missed the download link for the version that includes this![/quote]
Just sarcasm, I guess.
Ant422, it should work on any stock Windows version (with an audio subsystem) between Windows 2000, and Windows 7, and the installer is aware if it’s 32bit or 64bit and installs the correct versions of everything.
Reason I mention audio subsystem is because some versions of Windows don’t come with one, like Datacenter editions for instance. 8) You should be just fine.
I have an AthlonXP 3000+ which makes BBP really go awesome on the CPU use. It jumps up & down all over the place, sometimes it’s even program dependent too.
I don’t know if I would complain about the CPU use changing dynamically, because some very complicated code from Intel is inside BBP, and it’s designed to optimize itself based on your CPU’s capabilities and overall use… to attain maximum quality. 🙂
Ahem.
[quote author=”michi95″]How many bands in AGC ?
And how many bands in MB ?[/quote]The Core I used is the same version that is already in the current versions of Breakaway!!!The first AGC is broadband, that one is always broadband.
The multiband AGC/limiter is 5 bands, the number of bands is controllable by the presets (from 4 to 7 actual bands). Breakaway has 2 bass bands where most other processors have 1 band, so a 5 band Breakaway preset is comparable to most 4 band processors. (with the possibility of better controlled bass within the multiband)
The preset has very little limiting at all, and it wouldn’t cover up for problems like sudden increases in loudness, or any "jumpiness". The sound is completely legit, with no fancy safety nets afterward.
[quote author=”Leif”]listening to passive aggressor demo btw
that IS nice
this is a really nice preset
can’t wait to hear what that will sound like with fm processing
man you’ve got EXTREMELY solid sound in that preset, nice
nice work man
that’s really cool, you’ve spent much more time than i have on tweaking presets[/quote]
Daddy is proud. 🙂camclone, I thought the "problem" was already narrowed down to…
here:
viewtopic.php?p=8171#p8171
and here:
viewtopic.php?p=8208#p8208Only your extreme Breakaway settings (and whatever else you’re doing before it) causes that effect. You DO admit that Breakaway is allowing you to have a much larger bass sound without any audibly bad distortion (according to you), right?
There probably will be something to address this in the next updates, so… take it easy on the bass, and wait for a new Breakaway to come out. You might even make an interesting test to see if that increases your CUME. 8)
This is only the Breakaway Core… Strictly dynamics processing, nothing else. Consult the block diagrams topic to see what it doesn’t have that you’re used to.
The final drive in the Breakaway GUI "skews" where the actual final drive within the Core is at. So basically this sound is with everything default/centered.
The FM version should end up being about as loud as Reference at default GUI settings, but I don’t want to promise anything there yet. The way it sounds at default is the only thing that matters to me, not loudness. With +6dB final drive available to ~DOUBLE the average loudness, it shouldn’t be a problem for anyone if it’s not as loud as Reference. 😉
[quote author=”ASchuelke”]So am I correct in stating that this preset will process "unsmashed" audio more than "smashed" audio?[/quote]
Not exactly. It’s more like… it’s trying not to over process ALL audio, but it’s setup so that when smashed audio is encountered, you’ll see stuff happen like the peak output level hitting -3dB, with no limiting occurring at all obviously. Cut to cut consistency? Have a listen for yourself, and feel free to skip playback position around a bit.[quote author=”ASchuelke”]How does Breakaway know that a song is already smashed? Is this accomplished with some sort of RMS detection?[/quote]
It’s based heavily (almost completely) on the existing density of the original song, especially in the multiband AGC. The more dense it gets within a band, the more "strong" the processing gets there (as simple as I can put what’s really happening). The broadband AGC is actually ~twice as responsive to peakiness than the multiband, if you can imagine that.Leif just heard it for the first time today as well, despite having the preset for a long time, he’s been too busy to load it up, compared to the convenience of an mp3. He REALLY likes it.
All opinions are welcomed.
