- This topic has 47 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 6 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Leif, sos sos sos!!!!!!!!! 😳 😳 😳 😳
The High pass filter that breakaway uses doesn’t cut the low frequencies on the final stage of the sound !
I found many listeners of my radiostation that use some SONY FM RECIEVERS and not only… who have problems finding my station using auto scan on their recievers!! ➡i tested it with my ears and eyes, in areas where my station has 100% good signal , while playing songs with high energy of bass and of course 75 KHz legal deviation …the station wasn’t identified by the reciever auto scan!!
even with the default settings on " most used " breakaway presets i have the same problem. 😯
I USE BREAKAWAY CONNECTED DIRECTLY to the exciter of my radiostation
so, there is no garbage sound from wireless STLs…
breakaway is connected to the exciter with 75 khz deviation and no tilts!!!!( i have tested 1 digital direct synthesis exciter with fiber ( overclocked esi julia.. ) and 1 analog pll exciter using esi julia analog output.
both exciters are getting ….nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! while the normal up and down should be – + 2 khz frequency roll …while playing with breakaway they go – + 8 and – +10 khz frequency roll sometimes!!!!!!!!!!!
does breakaway filter properly the low frequencies for FM use ? ( edit from me )
[moderator’s note]
Breakaway does properly filter the final signal, and still more cleanly than any other processor out there right now.
[/moderator’s note]A dozen things related to intermod/interference could cause this issue…besides the audio processing.
So you say that actually HighPass filter in BBP is not working, which is impossible!
If you have same "loudness" on FM as in your stream .. then it’s nothing strange.
You have so many distortions on multiple levels, mostly on "lows"
Anyway here how looks rustonium and FM de-emphasized output (pink noise)
You can clearly see how Highpass filter works very nice.
i think that HPF 30 , 45 , 60 hz isn;’t very effective on breakaway for FM broadcasting use.
i am not sure ,Leif has done it’s best to keep a radiostation using breakaway competitive to orban and omnia .
can someone check it ? does the HPF work well on FM STEREO broadcast using breakaway ?
( my stream at night hours is dirstorted becuse of a re-transmittion issue with the headquarters in Athens – Greece )
If you listen to my stream from 8 am to 11 pm you will see how my sound colour looks like…
mms://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm/
http://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm/
windows media audio v9.2 128 kbpsbut , who cares, i care about FM dial !!
45 Hz and ….also the stokemaster limiter enabled, still the same resaults.
75 khz deviation and the pira fm analyzer shows -+ 5 to 8 !! khz IF frequency roll…!
i tested 2 exciters and still the same problem, when i play music the frequency roll i happening + – 8 khz .
…. my " energy " is at 8 dbr … and 75 khz deviation
sorry for my english
INTERMODULATION ? INTERFERENCE ?
are u sure ? i ve tested 2 exciters, and i tested mesuring also without the 120 kwatt amplifier. 🙂
no am noise
no interference
no intermodulationjust , 8 dbr of sound power!
i will test one more fm exciter to be sure
when i play with breakaway my 2nd IF goes from 324,9 to 322.0 khz !!!!!!!!!!!
Try also disabling the SRC in Breakaway config, which should be fine if you’re using the same card for input & output.
And of course the combination of reducing jitter and with & without the SRC.
Jessie,
WHY Leif didn’t put high pass filter on the final stage of the sound ? ( after the left right clipper ? )
I ve tested , omnia, orban, stereotool and i didn’t have problems with my exciters while using these 3 processors.
I think that if breakaway settings are extreme the high pass filter on the imput of breakaway doesnt help
using high processing make the high pass filter on the imput almost useless.
your ears will not hear low frequencies …but the fm exciter..will hear 1 and 2 and 10 Hzzzzzzzzzz !!!!!!!!!!!!i ve seen it with my eyes.
please make some sound engineering tests in the FM field 🙁please please please add a 1 hz or 15 or 20 or 30 hz high pass filter on the output!
[quote author=”camclone”]WHY Leif didn’t put high pass filter on the final stage of the sound ? ( after the left right clipper ? )[/quote]
I’m not sure where the high-pass filter is at. I think it’s right before the final clipper, just like all the other digital processors (if they are designed properly).I see what the problem is tho, if you pick the highest high-pass setting you’ll see the stop-band is only about 20dB down. I’m not sure why it might be that way. Leif would know I’m sure, I’ll make sure he sees this topic.
[quote author=”camclone”]Jessie,
WHY Leif didn’t put high pass filter on the final stage of the sound ? ( after the left right clipper ? )
[/quote]
…because that causes overshoots. When clipping, both harmonics and subharmonics (through difference-frequency IM) are created. These harmonics are necessary to keep the peak level of the signal down (that’s the whole point of clipping), so they must not be filtered out. This is why Breakaway — and every other FM processor — has the high pass filter at the very beginning of the chain! Check the block diagrams.
Squarewaves (which I happen to know is your favourite waveform) contain infrasonic information, so without infrasonics, there can be no squarewave.
However, unlike the other processors, BBP (in phase linear mode) has an extremely sharp, phase linear filter. When you set the filter at 30hz, it’s almost dead silent at 25hz, whereas the other processors are only about 6dB down at that frequency. For those familiar with filter design, it’s an 8192-point FIR filter(!) In short, the filter in BBP is *more* effective, so I don’t believe it is the cause of the problems you’re seeing.
If you are seeing lots of infrasonic, you may just be clipping too much, but since you say you’re NOT seeing the same problems with other processors, I don’t believe the problem is related to bass.
I’ve seen receivers skip stations due to RDS settings. It could also be overmod, perhaps? Please check a hardware oscilloscope in parallel with the output to make sure there are no overshoots, whether low or high frequencies.
///Leif
I ve got news :!)
i made this test to be sure :
Radio automation PC —- > breakaway pipeline 1 ( or vac )—>
—–> mpx by breakaway ASIO or BBP (latest ver)—- > FM exciter ( elenos, rvr, sigmacom dds )
both 3 exciters have instabilities with their 2nd IF frequemcy, from 325 khz – + 2 khz up and down!!CHECK THIS OUT :
when i make this : ( tricky way for HPF 30 hz to the …output… with some small overshoots..?)
Radio automation PC —- > breakaway pipeline 1 ( or vac ) — >
—–> left-right output using brekaway Broadcast ( my 1st licence ) — > SPDIF outpput-SPDIF imput to Breakaway ASIO mpx output !! ( my 2nd licence ) the ASIO VERSION is BYPASSED MODE with 30 hz HPF — > fm exciters = Booooooooooooooooom!!! it works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no 2nd IF frequemcy roll !!!!
fm exciters went from – + 2 khz it went to normal + – 0.1 khz up and down!
( i made a 5 khz deviation …overshoots , but who caaaaaaaares?!?!!?!? now my station locks to all the radio recievers!in simple words : adding some 5 khz overshoots by using with my tricky way …the HPF 30 hz filter …also to the output of the left right signal ….i made my radiostation compatible with all fm car stereo recievers!
( i always play at 75 khz max deviation , before and after ) ,, ( rds and stereo signals to normal levels )so ?!
it works!but , …i use 2 breakaways. :! )
i proved that in my case this solved my problem but added 5, 6 khz more deviation…who cares?!?!?!
please add an 2nd optional 30 hz high pass filter at ONE STAGE BEFORE THE LEFT RIGHT CLIPPER so, it will controll better the signals below 30 hz..
( i think that omnia, orban, stereotool can do double HPF , 1 on imput and 1 at output before the clippers ( mpx , or left right )
i can send you my 3 fm exciters ! 🙂
- The forum ‘Breakaway Professional Products – [discontinued]’ is closed to new topics and replies.