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i noticed this a while back when testing my system with sine frequency mp3s. If I have the volume set @ max in winamp, the oscilliscope in breakaway shows a drastic change in shape @ around 30hz and actually distorts the sound. Ive found that diff presets act differently. W/ JesseG’s new helix preset i need to have winamps volume down to 25% to not have square waves around 30 hz. Cranking the volume in breakaway has no effect except loudness, so i get my volume that way. My velodyne sub goes down to 23hz and theres an obvious decrese in volume and clarity, it makes it sound like a cheap sub trying to pump out 30 hz. But w/ winamp turned down, for most presets 50% volume it is perfect. All of my volume levels in windows including spdf are set to 50% or below and always have been. All of this is true to most processes running through breakaway, ie: zoomPlayer, VLC, Youtube – the ones ive tried.
Here’s the mp3 i used.
ok, first things… first 🙄
number one – you should’t use mp3s for audio testing, the mp3 codec work by removing stuff that it think the human ear would’t listen, how much of the original audio it chops off depends of various aspects, so, always use wav files for testing (you can generate test files with adobe audition, sony soundforge or similar stuff)
second one, a dynamics processor job is to process music, not audio tones, it divides (the crossover or x-over job) the input signal in various audio bands (5, 6 are common, in breakaway most presets use 5 bands) and process the signal in that band acording to the preset, but, the band don’t work alone, it can, and use, some info about the other bands to decide how to process the audio, and also send some info for the other bands for the same reason.
So, if you want to test your system, or a dynamics processor for that matter, use music, or broadband noise (white noise or pink noise) and second, dont relay so much on the spectrum analyzer of the breakaway, maybe it isn’t showing all the truth, double check the file first with a audio analysis tool (adobe audition can help you too with this).PS – opening the audio file off the link you sended on adobe audition, it shows a little too high amplitude in the wave, so, the problem possibly resides on your orginal signal, maybe the mp3 decoder of winamp don’t handle this high ampitude too well, I (personally) always use signals with -1dB of amplitude, for headroom in cases like this.
PS2 – some CD player, for example, also dont like high amplitude tracks, so they will clip with audio signals with more than -0.3 or so, something very frequent with some CDs mastered in the last years.welll since i listen to mp3’s to listen to music…. all im saying, is having the volume cranked in winamp changes the sound in breakaway. When i see the 30 hz tone change shape in the scope there is a very noticeable change in the audio output. I have also noticed this in a couple of songs which prompted me to figure out whats going on. So for the sake of arguement lets say i used a Brotha Lynch song called Raw Meat. With the volume cranked in winamp, this song starts to sound like crap, and the bass almost goes away. most of the bass in this song is around 23-28 hz, and u can see the square waves go away when i turn the volume down to 50% in winamp and the volume up in breakaway. The way i have it set now everything sounds the way it should. This goes for all the media players i have tried that dont have the volume slider bypassed by breakaway. Also, Since i have installed QO labs new studio FX output plug-in for winamp, i can have the winamp volume maxed out w/ no adverse effects and no change in audio quality.
Hi Hydro!
MP3 really is fine for test tones. MP3 doesn’t start degrading the audio until it runs out of bits, and a single test tone uses very few bits.
I’ve looked at your MP3 and it looks fine to me.
Hydro, can you provide me with a screenshot?
Please set the oscilloscopes in Breakaway to Display Left Input and Left Output, crank up the volume in Winamp, and show me the screenshot of the breakaway window, so I can see what the problem is.
///Leif
ok leif ill do that. im @ work right now but ill do it tomorrow. what it does is make the 30 hz wave change from a smooth lump, into a ramp with a flat top. thanks for the reply. have a nice night. ttyl
here lief, hope this helps you.[attachment=1:3p8uyj6l]1.jpg[/attachment:3p8uyj6l][attachment=0:3p8uyj6l]2.jpg[/attachment:3p8uyj6l]
Hi Hydro!
I see what you mean — and what happening is that the bass clipper is limiting the amplitude of the signal.
I’m sorry, I should have been more specific — can you make new screenshots with breakaway in Oscilloscope or Meters mode, so that I can see all the controls, particularly where you have the bass controls set?
Also make sure Breakaway is *not* muted, so that I can see where the volume control is set. The volume control in breakaway actually makes a difference, because it affects how the signal is processed — it does more than just change the volume. If you set it to -6dB or below, you have much more headroom for bass, so the bass clipper doesn’t have to clip the bass as much (to protect the high frequencies).
Nice macintosh "dock" simulation in windows btw 🙂. Haven’t seen that before, neat 😉.
We should start a post-your-desktop-with-breakaway thread, so we can see how peoples desktops are, I for one would love it 🙂.
///Leif
My system does the same, but only with the Helix preset. All the other presets work fine. You can reduce the distortion by lowering the bass levels in BreakAway, but you can’t remove the clipping completely. As already stated, all other presets work great.
hey leif, will do later. i didnt notice that the volume in breakaway changed the sound except for volume, but ill take your word for it 😛. ill take screenies later, but w/ the bass on 0. i can move winamps volume to about 40% in helix before the shape shifting. My normal breakaway volume is -28 db btw, w/ bass on 0, zenith, radio magic, and helix are the only ones that shape shift w/ my volume in winamp over 50%. I also keep the power under 10 and range below 40, to keep bass dynamics.
😆 i dragged the icons down there to hide the names of the shortcuts, and enabled auto-hide taskbar. the taskbar covers up the icons when im using it.
Thanks, Dr. J!
And good catch, Hydro.
The Helix preset was tweaked for Breakaway FM. There’s no reason for the bass clipper being set that low for Breakaway Personal. My mistake — I will fix it in the next beta.
Thank you!
///Leif
remember tho, it also does it in zenith, radio magic, and a little bit in regulator. all the rest of the presets never clip. for a while i was limited in using certain presets, until i accidently noticed a fix for it.
This is the closest I can get to clipping in any other preset. It only happens when I crank the BA volume to greater than -3db. All other volumes are set to max (WMP, SoundCard, etc.). Anything less than -3db in BA works without any clipping or distortion.
here is zenith screenie. Also, there is no change when i turn breakaways volume all the way up. The shape stays the same.
Howdy!
The bass clipping is highly intentional. It is part of the secret (not a secret anymore, is it) that allows Breakaway to have such extreme bass without causing distortion in higher frequencies.
The bass clipper itself is filtered, so even though it looks clipped, you can also see that it’s rounded — no sharp edges. Therefore you can squeeze more bass in, without causing problems for high frequencies.
Normally, when you play music, there’s not just a single sine-wave bass tone, but there will be lots of other sounds at the same time. If bass is allowed to go all the way to the top, that means the bass will push these sounds into the limiter, causing very fatiguing IMD (intermodulation distortion).
However, the excessively low bass clipper setting in Helix was my mistake. It has been fixed in 1.20.08, which is available for download at http://bredband.leif.cx/browse/bafm .
I’m VERY happy that you guys noticed this! This means you’re listening, you’re paying attention. What more could an audiophile ask for 😉.
///Leif
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