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Just out of curiosity, what are you looking for the preprocessing to do, which BBP isn’t already doing (well enough)?
///Leif
I use an Aphex Compellor AGC followed by an Orban 1100 in front of BBP
Compellor: i didn’t like the Orban AGC (at higher input volumes, it feeds too much audio to the multiband section) and it has some other side effects i don’t like. With the compellor in front of it, i know that the volume witch goes into the multiband section, never exceeds a certain level, so i can use the ‘headroom’ preserved for processing that peaks, for ‘cranking up’ the Orban, without having the risk of overloading it. Also, when it comes to computer processing, i like to have a hardware (analog) leveler. You cannot overload the input of a soundcard.. with the leveler in front of it, i know it never does. In holland, DJ’s don’t look at the meters while doing their radioshow. I can tell you, allmost any jock at any national radiostation puts the fader as high as possible. On the mixers used overhere, that’s +12db! And thats for music. When jocks are talking OVER the music, volumes are sometimes even higher. So, the input of a digital soundcard would easily gets overloaded..
Then the orban. I have it for 3 years now, because i love that orban sound and i just like to experiment with cool stuff 🙂. Now with BBP as the last stage in the chain, i use the orban to color the sound and to get that bass sound into BBP
I know Leif now is going to say that preprocessing is not needed because anything is threaded well in BBP (this is your cue Leif 😀) But there’s a difference between technically good and taste.. this way, i can set everything more to my taste, while i’m waiting for future versions of BBP with more control. If i can (for example) tweak the bass and EQ sound more to my personal taste, than i can remove the Orban out of the chain..
[quote author=”kingniels”]Also, when it comes to computer processing, i like to have a hardware (analog) leveler. You cannot overload the input of a soundcard.. with the leveler in front of it, i know it never does.[/quote]You also can’t overload the input of the Compellor either, or else you will get distortion just the same. So really all you’re doing is moving headroom from the soundcard, to something that’s in front of it.
Imho that alone is pointless and you’re just adding noise and distortion in the form of altering the impulse response, at the very least.
[quote author=”kingniels”]In holland, DJ’s don’t look at the meters while doing their radioshow. I can tell you, allmost any jock at any national radiostation puts the fader as high as possible. On the mixers used overhere, that’s +12db! And thats for music. When jocks are talking OVER the music, volumes are sometimes even higher. So, the input of a digital soundcard would easily gets overloaded..[/quote]Unless you attenuate the output so that it doesn’t happen which is essentially what you’re doing with your Compellor. You can also do it with simple resistance and it adds zero noise, and basically zero distortion from impulse response etc.
[quote author=”kingniels”]I know Leif now is going to say that preprocessing is not needed because anything is threaded well in BBP (this is your cue Leif 😀) But there’s a difference between technically good and taste..[/quote]You’re right. It’s not needed. But you are doing it because you want to. I can accept it. 😉 My choice of pre-processing wouldn’t be an Orban though. There’s not much I would really consider actually, because very little other than "all in one" broadcast processing is a majority program dependent, which is crucial in broadcasting or you’ll make one song better, and ruin the next. 😉
Next version of BBP will help you maintain headroom, by having proper ITU loudness meters as input meters, adjustable reference level, and internal compensation. Thus, if you set your reference level low (let’s say -31 ITU), you’ll have tons of the headroom before the sound card clips.
For people who like the "Orban-sound", running it the way Kingniels describes is actually an excellent idea!
The weakest point in an Orban processor is the final clipper, and all the multitudes of protection limiting (hf limiting, multiband clipping, medium-soft bass clipping etc etc) the Orban processor has to do internally to prevent from overwhelming its primitive final clipper.
By using BBP in Protection Clip mode as the final clipper, you get to DISABLE all that protection crap, since the BBP final clipper doesn’t need it. Thus, you still get the essence of the uncopyable orban-sound (which comes mostly from the multiband), but without all the distortion and other baggage. And for people who don’t like Orban’s AGC, a Compellor is indeed an excellent replacement.
This way, provided you’ve set the 1100 up to not do final limiting or agc, you’re bypassing the weak parts of the 1100 and replacing them with better parts. Makes sense to me!
Kingniels, are you doing streaming or FM? I’m curious to hear your chain.
Best,
///LeifLeif, none of both! I’m just interested in broadcast processing, so i only use it to play around with and experiment with! 🙂
I can make a recording of it, but i’m not able to get an off air MPX output (i don’t have the equipment needed for that.. LOTS of other things i have to buy first 😀). I can give you a WAV file to hear how it sounds, is that ok?
About the protection things in Orbans: that can also be used to adjust things to your taste. It gives you more tools to finetune your sound.. Maybe with a better clipper it’s not needed, but the way Orban does, gives more control over what is going to the clipper and how. For example, ‘cranking up’ the multiband clipper (in an 8400, it’s not available in the 1100, too bad!) gives you a consistent, smooth sound. I think it’s not bad to let tradeoffs like that to the end user.
I’ll make the recording as soon as i have a moment for it!
No need for off-air MPX. Breakaway Broadcast does not have an MPX clipper, so it’s perfectly fine to record the pre-emph L/R audio output.
What pre-emph setting are you using? I.e. are you processing for FM or Web? There is a big difference, even if there is no transmitter hooked up. Transmitters are not supposed to alter the sound (if one does, it is severely broken) so a transmitter is not at all necessary to tune audio processing.
You could use a Breakaway Pipeline to do the recording, and record with your favourite audio editor! Just make sure De-emphasis is OFF.
Best,
///LeifNext week i try an Behringer composer in front of BBP ..
BBP works fine standalone leiff 😉
Its only to see what is happening , because a lot of stations use preprocessing to get more punch .
I believe the extra punch you get from pre-processing (which can be noticeable!) is due to phase rotation in the pre-processor. This smears transients a little bit, makes them last longer rather than being sharp and tall, so that they survive the final clipping better, and come out sounding punchier.
Using a plug-in like Impact/Clunk does exactly this — without the disadvantages of having further crossovers or compressors fighting the main compressor.
Best,
///LeifLeif, does recording via pipeline also work if the soundcard don’t supports 192khz? (i’m not at home now, so i can’t test it)
Good suggestion! Never got that idea 🙂
Yes, absolutely! You can record MPX digitally that way.
However, for L/R, you don’t need 192 kHz. 44.1 or 48 kHz is just fine.
///Leif
Leif… I was surprised to hear you refer to "the uncopyable Orban sound". Is there something inherent about Orban that makes its sound uncopyable? (I’m asking on behalf of those of us who might want to get that sound using only BBP, either with the current version or a full-control version…)
Well, EVERY processor has "uncopyable" sound. Even simple wideband compressors of different designs will sound differently simply because the algorithms are different, even if you tune them for the same attack and release time. With complex multiband processor designs, which include crossovers, multiple stages, program adaptive attack/release etc, no two processors will sound the same.
Orban sound has a very characteristic slam sound to it, which, to be quite honest, I don’t know how to duplicate. Impact/Clunk gets you part of the way there, but not all the way, and chaining several ones does NOT do it. 🙂
On the other hand.. BBP has a groundbreaking new final clipper, yielding an absolute cleanliness which THEY can’t duplicate. The Breakaway multiband core also has a very stable sound field, a "round" pleasant sound which you also can’t get from an Orban no matter how you tune it. Most things just come down to taste…
Except distortion. Distortion is an error, an undesirable which just shouldn’t be there. Nobody ever asks for more distortion — PDs may ask for more loudness, but distortion is one of the few things where everyone agrees it’s a bad thing. 😉 (Pre-emptive strike: Electric guitar distortion is different. That’s an effect, intended by the musicians. The final clipper in a broadcast processor is not.)
Best,
///Leif[quote author=”Leif”]
Orban sound has a very characteristic slam sound to it, which, to be quite honest, I don’t know how to duplicate. Impact/Clunk gets you part of the way there, but not all the way, and chaining several ones does NOT do it. 🙂
[/quote]Maybe this can help you because someone try to clone the orban’s sound…
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