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good afternoon
I have replaced my server with a new machine because the old hardware blew up
everything is working apart from the fact I have ” phase drift ” anything from -4 to -20,
the things I have done to try and find out what is happening is
I’ve set up my DAC soundcard with an external oscilloscope and also used the built-in one in the software to set it up correctly
I’ve changed my multiplex cable
I’ve changed the sound card for a new one that is still DAC
I’ve changed the block size on the sound card settings
I’ve checked that the bit rate is correct and that its correct inside the windows sound card setting and is 192Hz
I have been working on trying to fix this for over a day so I think now is the time to ask for some help
I’m using a pira FM analyzer also to see my phase drift
if you could shed some light on how to fix this I would appreciate it
I have emailed support, a few times, and they asked for my config file and have had nothing back,
I have built a completely new machine and replicated my setting by exporting my setting and loading it onto the new machine and have the same issue, I have a horrible tone on my live machine at the moment so I need to get this swapped out asap
many thanks
markSorry to hear of your woes. Similar to another post in this forum, I get very suspicious when something which has been working flawlessly suddenly behaves badly with a change of hardware or OS.
Is the new hardware on the same OS level as the old? Windows 10 or 11? How similar is the configuration – Motherboard, sound card, RAM?
When you say that the old machine “blew up”, are any of the components salvageable? Could you swap the old hard drive/configuration back in? Is the sound card serviceable?
I’d like to see some settings images and oscilloscope patterns.
good afternoon
just so I’m 100% Clear
my original machine was a dell 1950, it was running for about 2 years 24/7, but the rail on the back of the raid array blew some caps, and the machine kept crashing so I built a new machine using another dell 1950,
whilst I was building the new machine the old machine gave up for good so I went off the air, I had loads of spare parts this is when I discovered the rail issue, I replaced the server with identical hardware and imported the old raid config and was back up and running, the old machine now has a nasty noise in the background and the rds and pilot are out of phase this is what I’m on air with now this is in a live environment so I’m unable to mess around with it,I thought to myself I will just build a new one so I got another dell 1950 and bought a new DAC USB sound card installed server 2019 “the same os as the old machine ” and imported the settings I now have no noise but still the rds and pilot are out of sync, by quite a bit,
if you look at the email I sent to support that has all the info on it, I have a perfect square, and the sweep test all shows its correct, I have done everything I can think of to rectify this
please read the email trail that I sent directly to Leif also to support it will show you all the equipment I have and what I’m testing it with, I did receive an email requesting my config file, I sent it the same day and heard nothing back until Leif emailed yesterday and I’ve only just seen your reply,
please could you do this over email as logging into a forum when I’m out and working is going to be a very long-winded solution
many thanks
markMy role is to try to resolve problems presented here on the forum, so that the subject matter can be shared and viewed by others who may have the same or similar issues. It is also to try and protect Leif from direct contact as much as possible, so that he can get on with his development work.
You are very lucky to have received direct communication from Leif, so there is really not much more that I can add, as he is far more experienced than I am.
Perhaps, after you have resolved the issue, you can share with us all, so that someone else may resolve a similar problem.
Mark, I have been thinking about this issue. BA1 has no input option for either RDS or MPX. They are both generated internally (within the program, using shared code), so there is no way that they can “drift”.
I’m not sure how you are measuring, or even if the measurements can be verified, but I suspect that it may either be a matter of interpretation of the test data presented, or the testing method is flawed.
hello milky
thanks for your reply
when I first set up breakaway some 13 years ago I did it using an oscilloscope and getting the correct sound cards and also spending hours messing about with it so I had a better understanding of how to set it up, when breakaway one came along after having good results with the old version and my old server was about to die I upgraded, I did not go live straight away with it as my time like yours is very limited, I run a radio station plus other business so its hard to find time to keep my head in it,1 year later I felt it was ready to go so I went for it, there were very limited instructions, the web site was an amalgamation of the old site and new site, also the support forum was not on the breakaway site, it was all very disjointed
the first issue I had was that I could not get my rds level to the desired figure, because it was hard-coded into the software, after speaking with Leif and actually sending videos of what I was doing proving that there was an issue with the software I got something adjusted from his end ie he edited the program and gave me a way to adjust the rds level, so I was happy
, I did not want to put this on your forum but nobody has allowed me to email or speak privately about this I am not running the publicly released version, this was a lot of headaches and a lot of time taken up but it fixed the problem, which I appreciatedforward 2/3 years and there are still no decent instructions and no new releases put out
my setup methods and equipment I am using to test are of a professional grade, I have listed via email what I’m using and also the sound card I am using is also what I have been advised to use from Leif
I totally understand that the software is what phases the rds and the stereo pilot tone hence the reason for my reaching out “after spending many evenings trying to resolve myself ”
I emailed support and got asked to send in my config file and logs which I did and herd nothing
I emailed Leif and he basically asked me the same questions I had answered in the emails BEFORE I copied him in on the email trail as I understand he is doing other businessI have had to get on a forum and wait for replies and have been requested to repeat all the information I have been sending via email
breakaway is something I have actively promoted as a station owner since I have used it
things seem to have gone very quiet which makes me very nervous, breakaway is supposed to be used in a professional setting ie licensed radio stations, when things go wrong we do not have hours days, and weeks to fix things, I’m about to launch another radio project, It would have been more custom but now I’m either going to use hardware or move to stereo tool, being that bit louder and cleaner is not worth the stress all I need is for everything to work
I understand you are not aware of my setup, my equipment, or my skill set, all I wanted was for someone to reply to the file they asked for and tell me what affects the rds and pilot phase, you have answered this for me “the software does ” so the only problem I have is the software, I’ve tried 3 servers,2 soundcards , new USB cables, new MPX cable, using the build in oscilloscope and a hardware oscilloscope and I use a pira FM analyzer, and around 30 hours messing around with it countless emails, and forum posts
I’m not trying to be a moaning idiot, it’s the way it’s gone and I’m sure your patience would be gone to
good luck with the future
Cheers
markThis truly IS a pathetic excuse for forum software, and it makes interaction much more difficult than it needs to be without editing or DMing. It’s just not conducive to a community or any kind of deep/direct support. I agree there should be more (any) interaction from Leif.
I say if you got a line in with Leif, and he’s responding, take that and run with it. We just request you post your solutions here once you have figured them out. Sorry this place wasn’t effective for you.
I can already see the 2nd chapter of the frustration on the stereo tool forum – Mr. van Zutphen, the phase is killing me, your product is crap, I will buy the Omnia 9 in the future :D.
Now seriously. As far as I understand, it worked ok on the old hardware, but it doesn’t work on the new one? Why don’t you first suspect that something is wrong with hardware?
About “bad” support, i see BAO as software for enthusiasts who don’t have money for expensive boxes. The author explained the basic setup with which the software becomes operational, and the rest is up to you. If you are in serious business, then you buy a piece of hardware that costs xxxx euro and you get xxxx pages of user instructions and online support.Speaking of the 13year old Breakaway broadcast soft, with decent sound card, it only required a test of phase distortion, amplitude response and emphasis setup. Later, you choose a preset according to your own taste, do the final touch in very modest settings and go on the air. I don’t know how you could spend hours on that?
hello pos1
I don’t know what are you referring to with regard to the second chapter on the stereo tool forum.?“Now seriously. As far as I understand, it worked ok on the old hardware, but it doesn’t work on the new one. Why don’t you first suspect that something is wrong with the hardware?”
the phase was out on the original hardware , I also assumed it was the hardware, that’s why I tried 3 Different servers, and also a brand new sound card
About “bad” support, i see BAO as software for enthusiasts who don’t have money for expensive boxes. The author explained the basic setup with which the software becomes operational, and the rest is up to you. If you are in serious business, then you buy a piece of hardware that costs xxxx euro and you get xxxx pages of user instructions and online support.
you may see BAO as “software for enthusiasts, but I don’t! , are you saying that it’s not suitable for professional use? £500 plus hardware so around £1000 and the time to set up is the same cost as a standard BW audio hardware audio processor, the sound would not be as good but there is no windows machine to worry about hard drives and corruption, etc, and no setup time, and also no test equipment is needed, so I decided to exchange my time for better audio quality
if you are running a licensed FM radio station then you are committed to keeping your station on air, you have to as your license stipulates, so in my view, anyone with a license is a professional broadcaster regardless of your transmit power, if this software is only suitable for enthusiasts, that would be unlicensed stations that is a much smaller marketwith regards to the setup video, I agree it does show how to get it working but that’s about it, I found that I could not achieve my correct piot level so Leif put the piot level setting in the software so I could adjust it, I appreciated him doing it for me,
all the information I have been given while setting up IS not on the website, it has been sent to me by email, some information is on the old site like I said it needs pulling togetherwith regards to the 13-year-old broadcast soft, I spent hours setting it up because I wanted to know everything about it, I wanted to learn, and when something did not work I DID NOT assume it was the software, I always assume its user error IE something I was doing wrong, I spent days trying different settings, different soundcards, different servers, different versions of windows, reading what I could find online, to then find out that the software needed to have a pilot level adjuster putting in because it was nothing I was doing wrong,
back to the beginning “I asked what affects the phase ” the answer I got from milky was “the software controls it
” so I have no control to correct it, and I also do not know why its not correct after using all the recommended equipment
if the instructions and forum and website get pulled together that would be a big positive for breakaway
and if someone could tell me how to adjust the phase or what affects the phase that would be another big positive
breakaway is great apart from these 2 things in my view
have a good dayI have an email response, directly from Leif that, if he had made an adjustment to the program to allow you to adjust the “pilot level setting”, it would be included in ALL subsequent releases of the software.
Can you imagine how hard it would be to support changes to satisfy the whims of every person’s perceived requirements? Of course, very quickly, it would become a support nightmare, which is why, I am confident that the modification is either in the current stable release, or it may have come to you via means that shouldn’t be talked about on this forum.Why has it taken you so long to respond, and why are we even talking about Stereo Tool? Are you sure you are on the right forum?
POS1 was the one who brought up Stereo Tool. Secondly, lol @ deflecting and reducing this person’s issue to a whim.
@MrKlorox I give every query on this forum my utmost attention. In fact, this one query from In2beats has been the subject of ten emails between myself, John Edwards and Leif.
This is an excerpt, directly from Leif.
“I haven’t made any specific copy for anyone though (I could never maintain that in the long run), if I add a feature and send someone a new version, it’ll be in every official build from that point on.
There’s no RDS phase adjustment, because it’s software generated in sync. There is an RDS Injection Level control. There’s no way for it to drift though, RDS and stereo and pilot are generated together, hard locked.”
Wow ……. really so now you are saying I’m lying … and now you are saying I downloaded a version from a source you can’t talk about LOL, really.
at no point have I been rude, no point have accused anyone of anything
The reason it’s taken so long to reply is I am Bizzy “like very Bizzy”!
I’m going to post what I was given and you can apologize and maybe give me the support I needCome to think of it, perhaps it’s time I add a limited range pilot level control.
The correct pilot level is 9.0%, with the acceptable range being 8.0 to 10.0%.
So, if I add a control to adjust between 8.25% and 9.25%, that may just solve several problems:
With your current up to 85 kHz peak overshoot, you’d have to bring the level down 11.8% (75 / 85 = 0.88235).
If BreakawayOne then generates the pilot at 9.25%, the resulting pilot level would be 9.25 * 0.88235 = 8.16% which is just within the acceptable range.
9.25% pilot with 90 kHz peak, on the other hand, would have resulted in a pilot level of 7.71% (75 / 90 = 0.83333 9.25*0.83333 = 7.708), which is not in the acceptable range, and thus the design goal of not providing a band-aid that would mask severe issues is maintained.
It would allow OCD people to achieve exactly 9.0% pilot injection (instead of for example 8.9%)
Having the control there, with a limited range, means people won’t have to spend a week looking for it.So, yeah.
I shall do it forthwith.
Yes by the way, the USB dac completely replaces the output sound card. It does NOT have an input, however, so that will have to come from somewhere else.. for example from the built in stream receiver, which is very convenient anyway.
Best,
///Leif
IF YOU REQUIRE THE ORIGINAL EMAIL OR SCREEN SHOT DO NOT HESITATE TO ASK, OR EVEN THE PROGRAM THAT GOT ADJUSTED FOR ME AND ALSO THE PROGRAM I PAID FOR I CAN SUPPLY
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING WAY TO TALK TO YOUR CUSTOMER
Have a good daywao entiendo que estes pasando esto yo solo utilizo el breakaway one hd solo streming pero siento que hay una gran diferencia con otras emisoras hay una separación notoria con el sonido breakaway tiene todo las funciones y funciona bien, nada que decir ahi pero otras emisoras tiene separación stereo bien notoria… pero en fin
mejor ahorra dinero y cómprate uno en caja Vorsis Vp8 Plus una solucion o david 4 … saludos@MrKlorox no, I didn’t bring stereotool into the discussion. As the author of this topic announced either the purchase of hardware or the transition to “louder software”, I was convinced that we had finished further discussion, but apparently we have not.
@in2beats, I would recommend you to install, if you haven’t already, other demo applications for this purpose, and then check for possible phase deviation.There are at least three applications on the internet that can be downloaded and tried. That way you will be 100% sure that the cause is not hardwareAs i said, i haven’t noticed anything like that in the Breakaway one operation so far, and i also use a set of professional modulation measurement tools including a Pira analyzer. The only thing i removed from the chain in practice is the behringer card (HD series 202,204,404) that Leif uses in the demonstration video. Each of them has nasty interference above 40KHz, which primarily affects the RDS carrier.
I still claim that this is software for enthusiasts, which does not mean that it is not suitable for professional use. It just means that you need to sit down and spend a certain number of hours to get it right. And that’s acceptable in my opinion considering the price and what it offers.
Ask yourself how many stations have a qualified person who will do this job or who is ready to spend hours tuning the application in addition to their regular work.
That’s why, as a rule, in broadcast systems, you order hardware from a renowned manufacturer and possibly a custom preset, screw in the BNC and power supply, adjust the mpx level, and there’s no more need to poke around and worry if Windows or some of the PC hardware will scream. But of course it costs money.Just to add to this topic – in the broadcast chain, at this point, the regulator does not distinguish between software for licensed stations and software for hobbyists. It is important to him that you do not go over 75k, and in certain countries that you comply with ITU sm1268, and how you will do that is your concern.
Just a little more about the pilot. If the equipment has a good linear characteristic (no phase distortion/amplitude deviation within the baseband), there is no question of going over 75KHz with a nominal pilot value of 9%. If there are overshoots then the problem lies in the sound card, STL or TX, which can be partially corrected within the BAO software.
And yes, the pilot can be regulated without Leif’s intervention, you just need to think a little about how to do this inside the software.At the end, if your phase correlation with other applications is good, I don’t think that you will find solutions by writing here. Only direct correspondence with Leaf remains, no matter how slow it may be.
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