Experience / tips for Breakaway with DVB viewers?

[quote author=”leecovuk”]My Breakaway is at Set Up Wizard defaults (medium buffer)[/quote]So, does this mean that you have tried "Small Buffer" and "Tiny Buffer" and hear pops and cracks with these smaller buffer sizes ?
[quote author=”leecovuk”]is watching live TV not something Breakaway is optimised for?[/quote]Medium Buffer = 65 ms latency
Small Buffer = 50 ms latency
Tiny Buffer = 30 ms latency

These (relative) small differences are only noticeable in conjunction with other (already present) delays ➡ watching TV DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S(2).

[quote author=”leecovuk”]However it appears slight audio delay / latency often appears when watching live TV using DVBViewer.[/quote]Only with HD broadcasts or with standard TV, too ?

[quote author=”leecovuk”]I use ffdshow for standard definition video and audio processing; DivX H.264 decoder and ffdshow for high definition broadcasts.[/quote]It really depends on what kind of additional processing you use in ffdshow audio processor/decoder and/or ffdshow video processor/decoder how much latency you have overall.

But the good message is:
You can adjust (compensate) the latency/delay very easy inside the ffdshow video processor/decoder and achieve lip-synchronicity even if the original broadcast is out of sync (it happens more often):

I use the DVBViewer (Pro), too.
I even use ffdshow as video postprocessor for DVB-S2 HD broadcasts (in conjunction with CoreAVC decoder).
I have an ATI HD4850, Athlon X2 6000+, 2 GB RAM on Win XP pro SP2.
As long as HD playback is smooth and stable you should not care too much about (virtual) CPU usage.

[quote author=”leecovuk”]Regarding any video processing I do in ffdshow, I routinely use Picture Properties to raise brightness and lower saturation for all pc video playback that can use ffdshow as well as live TV.[/quote]On XP I use Overlay Mixer as video renderer (and do brightness, contrast, saturation and hue adjustments with DVBViewer’s built-in control GUI) – no need for ffdshow.
So, if none of the on Windows 7 present alternative video renderers can access hardware colour control, you should try to adjust these (fixed) correction settings inside the catalyst driver control.

[quote author=”leecovuk”]ffdshow audio is set to use ‘Mixer’ to force 2 channel stereo output and usually I use no other processing in there.[/quote]For sure there are differences (but relative small) using different codecs, but not that massive in relation to the final delay of video/audio sync.

But ffdshow is special:
There are some (nightly) builds that do not work for me -> results in slowdowns and other unwanted effects.
That’s why I still use an older version:
ffdshow_rev2968_20090525_clsid

-> try different ffdshow builds !

[quote author=”leecovuk”]In the DivX H.264 decoder, I again have brightness up and saturation down.[/quote]Does this mean that you do not use ffdshow (processor) in conjunction with HD (DivX H.264 decoder) ?
DVBViewer ➡ Plugins ➡ Video Postprocessor ➡ Exclude for Current Decoder !
With additional ffdshow processor you loose important hardware acceleration (GPU) functions.
Have you tried to use the ATI MPEG Video Decoder (for H.264) instead ?
(The decoder is not included in Catalyst download versions ! You have to install first the old driver from the original installation CD that came with your ATI HD 4350 card and than update it with the latest Catalyst download version !).

[quote author=”leecovuk”]As you know, the problem with setting delays in ffdshow is finding a magical ‘suits all’ setting.[/quote]If you (in theory) have audio/video in perfect sync it needs (IMO) adjustments of +/- 150 ms (or more) to notice a delay.
You can try use a standard video delay of 150 ms inside ffdshow processor (decoder) to suit standard and HD TV.

Or use the "Preset autoload conditions" in ffdshow:

➡ on decoder match ➡ DivX H.264
This way your preset with additional delay (try 300 ms) is only used for HD broadcasts but not for standard TV.

[quote author=”leecovuk”]It sounds like your pc is similar to mine except I am on 7 and you XP[/quote]And except the difference between my 4850 and your 4350.
But you have a better CPU than me.

I’ve done some investigation and compared DivX H.264 decoder and CoreAVC.
With CoreAVC I do not need an extra video delay in ffdshow.
But using DivX H.264 decoder (low latency checked !) audio and video is out of sync for me too !
I would suggest to use a video delay in ffdshow of 200 ms to compensate it.

You need an uptodate version of DVBViewers Postprocessor Plugin.
And your PostProcessor.ini (the one inside your DVBViewer configuration folder !) should look like this ( ➡ edit it with Notepad):

Maybe another Version than 513 ?
I am using Postprocessor version 2.1.0.0 (never change a running system – you know !).
And maybe the CLSID numbers have changed in Windows 7 ?
So if this not works for you, try to get a version of Graphstudio (freeware):
➡ Graph ➡ Insert Filter ➡ DirectShow Filters ➡ ffdshow…. to get the correct CLSID numbers.

And then use the Preset autoload conditions function in ffdshow (see my earlier post).

For MPEG2 I still prefer to use MPV Decoder 1.0.0.4 (Gabest), it is free.
And I tell you: I have tried them all (old and new Sonic, NVidia, WinDVD, PowerDVD, DScaler, etc.) !
The MPV (Gabest) is the only MPEG2 decoder that works for Bob De-Interlacing (the look and smooth feel of video we know from our good old PAL TVs) in combination with ffdshow post-processing.
For all other MPEG2 decoder Bob De-Interlacing breaks when you add ffdshow as postprocessor (or you have to use the ffdshow internal Kernel-Bob or Yadif, etc. instead).
➡ use google and search for MPV Decoder 1.0.0.4
But I don’t know if this decoder still works with Windows 7.

Using ffdshow as decoder for MPEG2 ( ➡ exclude this from ffdshow raw video filter post processing or you have two ffdshow instances !)
I remember that most people recommend libavcodec.
But in my experience I would prefer libmpeg2 (in some situations libavcodec failed for me).

For audio (MP2 and AC3) I prefer InterVideo Audio (WinDVD) or the free DScaler Audio Decoder (Windows 7 ? – I don’t know !).

Good luck !

PS: The ATI MPEG Video Decoder (for H.264) no longer works correct on my system (with and without ffdshow raw processor) ➡ green and violet picture.
Don’t know what went wrong.
CoreAVC is for sure still a good choice.
But the free DivX H.264 Decoder (adding the optional video delay with ffdshow) is a free (and cheap) alternative.

[quote author=”leecovuk”]One of my problems is I find it hard to determine when video is slightly lagging behind audio or vice versa. Randomly trying slightly different delay values drives me towards insanity.[/quote]Don’t drive yourself crazy !
[quote author=”leecovuk”]I wish there was some kind of magical ‘automatic V/A sync checker and adjuster’ in DVBViewer or a Directshow filter. Or maybe a slider control, which I could adjust back and forth in real time to adjust sync. That could be in DVBViewer, Directshow or Breakaway[/quote]It is not necessary at all (especially it is not possible inside Breakaway or any other audio part of the chain, because it has to be done with the video – it is a question of logic) !
Not necessary at all, because:
It is a static delay !
If it is not, there must be something else wrong on your system (a hidden CPU eater that leads to performance instability while HD decoding ?).
Using the same directshow filter chain (decoders) there should be no change !
Only when you switch from standard TV to a HD channel (and vice versa) you change the directshow filter chain (rebuild the decoding graph inside DVBViewer with other decoders needed for HD).
[quote author=”leecovuk”]I wish there was some kind of magical ‘automatic V/A sync checker and adjuster’ in DVBViewer[/quote]There are thousands and thousands people that use DVBViewer (or other DVB apps) for standard and HD TV without any need for such thing.
If there is noticeable delay, than it is your special problem – a problem caused by your system (a decoder like DivX H.264 or whatever else ?), because you have written that even without BAE you have a noticeable delay.

Have you ever seen a standalone TV with a manually audio/video sync adjustment option ?
It is not necessary (or it should not be) !
There are only some very rare exceptions (cheap, low budget TV shops, etc.).
But on regular TV stations it is very seldom that the broadcasted content is already out of sync (it is more or less three or four times a year that I manually adjust the video delay, but most of the time I use none !).

[quote author=”michi95″]If you (in theory) have audio/video in perfect sync it needs (IMO) adjustments of +/- 150 ms (or more) to notice a delay.[/quote]
➡ Use steps of +/- 50 ms to determine the static (!) delay !
Even for AVI muxing (in the past) I have never used smaller steps than +/- 25 ms, because everything else (smaller steps) is beyond the human reception capabilities (because the human brain has its own built-in sync compensation adjustment processing).
So, I am not surprised about your problems you have described:
[quote author=”leecovuk”]Randomly trying slightly different delay values drives me towards insanity.[/quote]You are a human being and not a machine !

Though human individuals are very different in their subjective recognition capabilities.
I know some people that do not notice even a delay of 250 ms.
These people need a 400 ms delay to feel that something is wrong.
We are talking about a/v sync for playback (and broadcasts are playback).

For real human to machine interaction ➡ live processing while recording: singing, playing (virtual) instruments you cannot live with delays.
There you need ultra low latency (less than 5 ms using ASIO).
But 25 ms more or less delay watching TV (videos) is IMO irrelevant (as long as the general present a/v delay on your system is ok).

Of course, if you want (with ambitions to win the Nerd Of The Year award) you can calculate the additional delay introduced by BAE, the driver of your soundcard and every decoder, etc. and add this as standard delay inside ffdshow video processing options (include it in every ffdshow preset you use).

And keep in mind that with every change of your position in the room relative to your loudspeakers the audio delay changes also.
One meter makes a difference of 3,3 ms for an audio signal (the sound through the air) !
While the light needs only 0,000000003333…. ms for a meter !
This is not exact, but this way it looks more elegant !

For some people mathematics is their hobby. 8)
For other mathematics is a sick perversion. 😥