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Hi Modman!
Very interesting. Can you post the source audio clip, and the settings you’re using in BBP? I’d really like to see what’s going on.
Best regards,
///LeifModman, I would like to know what subwoofer you have that plays below 30hz, and also what songs you are playing. I have never found a song with bass notes below 30hz other than specific bass-test tracks!
Remember, the high pass filter can be turned off completely too. This way you can be sure to keep all subsonic information, if you really want it. 🙂
If you hear Breakaway bring up noise too much in the intro / outro, then Range is too high, it’s really that simple. Try 30, or maybe even 20!
It depends on what preset you’re using too. Helix tends to boost noise because of its extreme use of multiband compression — other presets may do better. It’s all a tradeoff — Breakaway doesn’t add any noise, but because of how smooth the compression is, it can be deceptive — one doesn’t notice how much the audio is really gained up, until you hear the noise.
You can find out the exact gain from looking at the meters. If the top of the Input AGC meter says 18dB, and the top of the Multiband meter says 12dB, and all meters are retracted all the way (as they would be when a song is fading out), then that’s 30dB of straight gain applied. For modern music, this isn’t really a problem, but if you have an older recording with -50dB noise floor, and boost it 30dB, then you’ll have noise at -20!
Downward expanders (noisegates) help somewhat, but it’s not magic, physical laws must still be obeyed.
Best regards,
///LeifModman, if it’s becoming too noisy when the track finishes, that means Range is set too high!
Breakaway is simply boosting the volume more than you want it to. If you turn down the Range control, the problem will go away completely.
I could add 20hz high pass in the future if it’s an important feature. Can you tell me where the 30 option causes problems? I would be very interested to know, I am always interested to improve Breakaway. 🙂
For FM, 20hz would not be a viable option, since many PLLs destabilize under 30hz.
///Leif
Hi Shamousi!
I’m afraid because of Winamp’s dwindling popularity, making a dedicated Winamp Plug-in has become a low priority.
However, you can actually use Breakaway for only winamp — you don’t have to run it system wide.
It’s easy.
When you install Breakaway, make sure to select Safe Mode. After that:
If you are using Vista:
Open Control Panel, Hardware and Sound, Sound. Select your sound card as the default device.
If you are using Windows XP:
Open Breakaway Settings, uncheck "Manage". Then, open the control panel, Sounds and Audio Devices, and select your sound card as the default device.
Finally, in Winamp, press CTRL-P, Output plug-ins, DirectSound output. Click Configure, and select Breakaway Pipeline as the audio output.
Done!
Best regards,
///LeifHi Tromb1!
Breakaway actually uses 32-bit accuracy internally. I/O is 16-bit since it’s the most compatible, and thanks to the internal gain from compression (and dithering), the signal easily fits in 16 bits without audible degradation.
///Leif
Hi Maniak!
No need to apologize — your english is MUCH better than my russian!
The problem with Preset Descriptions is that they are a very subjective thing. It’s all about what sound you like — not really about what music you play.
For example, "The Regulator" preset, I originally designed it for use with Hip Hop / Rap / RnB music.. But, I know of at least one *major* radio station, using it for their web stream, and they play oldies! Music from the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s.. And it sounds great! I was extremely surprised when they told me they’re using The Regulator.
It’s not true that you need to change presets when you change the music you’re playing — quiet the opposite! Pick a sound you like, and then forget about Breakaway — just leave it running. This way, you will get consistent audio no matter what you play.
It’s true that there should be better descriptions for presets though. I’ll work on it.
A few clarifications:
*All* presets increase volume on quiet parts.. This is a large part of what Breakaway does. However, you can adjust how each preset does it, by using the Speed / Range / Power controls.
The French Kiss description is a bit of a joke — you’re right, I will write a better description. This preset is designed to audibly "pump", and makes any dance music sound like it was made by Daft Punk. Some people like this sound — it’s very punchy.
Magnifying Glass has very strong normalization, it brings up quiet sounds more than even Reference Heavy.
Perfect Blend is maybe half way between Ref Heavy and Ref Settings, but has slightly less treble, for a very smooth sound.
Radio Magic is not best for listening to online radio — rather, it makes any music you play sound like you’re listening to FM radio. It’s a very compressed, dense sound — definitely not HiFi, but some people love it!
Really, the only answer is, listen to the sound with your favourite music, and pick the one you like best. The description really doesn’t matter — I mean, how can you describe sound in words? 🙂
The controls, Speed / Range / Power, actually have good descriptions in the Tooltips. Just point at them with your mouse, without clicking, you will see the description appear. Don’t be afraid of the controls! Adjust them, hear how they affect the audio. If you make a large adjustment you will hear easily what each control does, and then you can fine tune more easily.e
Thank you very much for your comments — you have given me a lot to think about! I am always thinking about how to make Breakaway more user friendly, and you raise important questions.
Best regards,
///LeifHi Didac!
Good thing it at least sounds good 😉.
There will definitely be a version in the future where all parameters (including the noise gate) are configurable.
However, since you heard a lot of noise even in this version, I wonder, where did that noise come from?
Could you record the input to BBP and send? Just run a wave recorder on the same sound card as BBP, so that you record the unprocessed input, and also let me know what settings you used.The reason I’m asking is that noise gates are not magic. If there is too much noise in the source material, it cannot be removed without also affecting the audio itself, even if you adjust every setting in the multiband noisegate.
Also, you might want to try the Oldies preset — it has the most aggressive noisegating of all presets.
Audio dropout every 15 minutes sounds like it could be a hardware or software issue. You might want to run BBP on a clean install of Windows XP, without any other software running on the same machine. Even though it runs in Realtime Priority, it’s still possible that other programs (or hardware) can interfere.
For example, I once had a computer where there was a slight audio glitch every 3 minutes (180 seconds), like clockwork. This happened with EVERY audio card, EVERY program. After troubleshooting for a long time, i finally realized that it was the Promise fasttrak SX4 raid controller that was causing it! Any time the driver was loaded, it would cause this interruption every 180 seconds. Very annoying, and technical support had no answers — I had to stop using the card completely!
It’s not *really* necessary to use 1000ms buffer in Airomate — it should work fine with lower settings, but because there is nothing to gain from lower RDS delay, I recommend the highest setting just to be sure.
The RDS problem you’re seeing is very strange — does it work better when you use Airomate directly with the sound card, without BBP?
Best regards,
///LeifNow that is well and truly a reproducable bug, Carl!
Good find.
I bow to your level of talent in this matter 😆
The crash is indeed a bug, but the problem is really earlier — windows without a titlebar should not be minimizable, as they will then inevitably leave that titlebar window behind. To be honest, I just never tried it.
I will add code to make the Minimize option go away completely when in this state. If minimize was successful, there would be no way to bring the window back other than by clicking on the tray icon, and at that point we might as well have closed the window altogether. Would save resources. 🙂
///Leif
Hi Carl!
The unit is samples. I’ve found 480 to be more stable than 512 under Vista, because 480 is evenly divisible by the sample rate (in your case 48000), so that there would be exactly 100 blocks per second. 960 should work too.
2 buffers per input seems low, I’ve never gotten 2 buffers stable on any of my systems. 3 should work better.
Input sampling rate matters only to decide where and when you want to do sample rate conversion. By setting 48000 in, 48000 out, Vista will have to do the sample rate conversion from 44100 to 48000 when you play music. To my ears, it doesn’t do it very well, but I suppose it’s acceptable for most uses. I personally usually use 44100 in and 48000 out, so that the operating system does not have to sample rate convert music (which I play 95% of the time). For the other 5%, when I watch movies or a TV show, Windows might have to convert it down to 44100 to get into the pipeline, but at least it’s much less often 🙂. The sample rate conversion inside Breakaway is completely inaudible to my ears, and spectrum analyzers seem to agree.
What video card do you have again, Carl?
I remember having problems like these years and years ago, but it’s been a long time now — I thought that manufacturers had their act together now that EVERYONE is using their PCs for "multimedia" purposes. I mean, pretty much anyone who browses the web may have audio going while they scroll a web page.
It could also be something silly like the on-board audio and your video card sharing an IRQ. If that’s the case, there may not be a whole lot the driver can do about it. You can check it out — Control panel, system, hardware, device manager, View Resources by type. Look at the IRQ’s, see what’s sharing with what.
Stuart is right about the meters — right-click the toolbar and choose what you want to see. 🙂
Best regards,
///LeifHehehe.. Well, it’s accurate, but I’m not sure I’d call it nice.
Try the Amsterdam preset. It’s slightly louder than that 8500 sample, but you can always dial it down a bit with the controls.
///Leif
Hi Infodrive!
Thank you for your comments! 🙂
I have never seen a sound card where one of the outputs affects the other in that manner. Using one and leaving the other hanging should not make a difference at all.
On your transmitter, make sure pre-emphasis is disabled. It must be set to flat frequency response to accept an MPX signal.
After that, check the level — if it’s distorted, turn it down either the output level on sound card’s mixer, the input gain on the exciter, or the MPX ref level in BBP.
Do you have the make and model of the transmitter? Are you setting up a station or an in-house test setup?
Best regards,
Leif ClaessonHey Carl, if the video driver is interfering with audio when using Breakaway, doesn’t it interfere even when you’re not using Breakaway? Without the Realtime Priority option in Breakaway, I would have thought that other applications would be at least as susceptible. What buffer size are you using in BA by the way?
Best regards,
///LeifHi Guillou!
It’s been a long time since I played with an 8500. How about you record an MPX of a station? I’ll be happy to listen and match the sound. 🙂
Best regards,
///LeifEasy. Resize it 🙂.
Right-click your taskbar and unlock it. Then you can resize the breakaway toolbar with the resizing edge that appears. After that, you can lock the taskbar again if you wish.
///Leif
Very strange indeed.. I still don’t understand how the mute can be affecting the pipeline, since it (correctly) doesn’t on all my systems.
It is still possible to have audio go into Breakaway without the pipeline being the default sound device — you would then have to set each application to play into the pipeline instead of the default device. When Carl mentioned having done this, I thought I had found the culprit, but life is never that easy is it… 😕
///Leif
