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thank you for your response and apology, it is a shame that it took 17 posts…
the os I am using is windows 10, and the servers I am using are all dell 1950s, the only difference between the machines is the speed of the processors, and the amount of ram, they are all using perc6 raid cards, and all use the same sound card,
originally the phase was out a little ie -5 to -7 when I changed the hardware it got a lot worse up to -20,
the next 2 machines I built had a phase drift of -10 to -15, it has never ever been 0,
after your response, I am now confident that you have 0 phase drift, so I am also able to achieve this, and that there is no adjustment or anything in the software that can affect the phase drift,
if I am reading your correct
the things that affect the phase drift are
Sound card
Drivers
Windows updates
MotherBoard
HardwareNOT THE SOFTWARE SETTINGS
so based on this information, I will get a random pc install and try again,
I will figure it out when time allows me toI have to say the responses I had from people who I think are admins were not good
I have supported breakaway by actively telling other people about it in the industry and buying it myself, and also trying things out to fix it myself before crying online
if a new update for a breakaway is bought out,
Charge more for it so the support can be given
attach the forum to the breakaway site ,
instructions are updated ,
and people who administrate actually talk like they would like to help I think things would greatly improve for the whole breakaway community
none of the above costs money “apart from leif building new software ”
Thank you milky for your clear suggestions
when time allows I will try different hardware because it bugs me when I can’t figure things out
have a good day and good luck
Cheersthank you for your response
@in2beats, I would recommend you to install, if you haven’t already, other demo applications for this purpose, and then check for possible phase deviation. There are at least three applications on the internet that can be downloaded and tried. That way you will be 100% sure that the cause is not hardwareplease could you please point me in the direction of the “demo applications “?
I still claim that this is software for enthusiasts, which does not mean that it is not suitable for professional use. It just means that you need to sit down and spend a certain number of hours to get it right. And that’s acceptable in my opinion considering the price and what it offers.
Ask yourself how many stations have a qualified person who will do this job or who is ready to spend hours tuning the application in addition to their regular work.
That’s why, as a rule, in broadcast systems, you order hardware from a renowned manufacturer and possibly a custom preset, screw in the BNC and power supply, adjust the mpx level, and there’s no more need to poke around and worry if Windows or some of the PC hardware will scream. But of course, it costs money.reply
as stated before I have spent hours messing around and tuning to try and get it right, I have built 3 different machines, used an oscilloscope, tried new and different sound cards, and bought equipment like the pira to set it up correctly,i understand it is a cheeper option for decent audio but at the expence of time to set it up , the only person that would be qualified to set this up is either someone who has built loads of audio processors using breakaway or someone that designed and built the software or someone that has read the user manual “there is not one” so there really is not much use for this in a professional setting unless you are lucky enough for it to work straight after install if it does not then there is little support and you might get accused of using software from a place we can’t talk about, all I have asked is how to adjust the phase, or what effects the phase, it has taken months and 15 posts to be told try a different way to measure the phase difference and try different hardware,Just a little more about the pilot. If the equipment has a good linear characteristic (no phase distortion/amplitude deviation within the baseband), there is no question of going over 75KHz with a nominal pilot value of 9%. If there are overshoots then the problem lies in the sound card, STL or TX, which can be partially corrected within the BAO software.
And yes, the pilot can be regulated without Leif’s intervention, you just need to think a little about how to do this inside the software.the pilot level is on a slider “Leif put one in the software for me as I said before so I don’t have to think about that. ? are you hinting at something else?
I’m not getting any overshoots.
I’m not using a Beringer sound card using the ES9018K2M DAC chip, 24bit 192Khz sound card as advised by leif , and I’ve tried 2 new ones,
its just phase that is out
this is like guess what?
please can anyone tell me what affects the phase being out on breakaway one ,
if they are both generated in the software, and the software controls this then what setting or adjustments affect the phase, and the tilt I have tried, changing the frequency of the audio, doing a sweep, and changing from a square wave, I have changed about every setting known to man on 3 DIFFERENT installs with the same results,At the end, if your phase correlation with other applications is good, I don’t think that you will find solutions by writing here. Only direct correspondence with Leaf remains, no matter how slow it may be.
I tried this , got nothing back,
as I previously said this forum does not even exist on the website, Leif does not answer, so basically the end of the road, I bought something and the support has expired ……..THE ENDWow ……. really so now you are saying I’m lying … and now you are saying I downloaded a version from a source you can’t talk about LOL, really.
at no point have I been rude, no point have accused anyone of anything
The reason it’s taken so long to reply is I am Bizzy “like very Bizzy”!
I’m going to post what I was given and you can apologize and maybe give me the support I needCome to think of it, perhaps it’s time I add a limited range pilot level control.
The correct pilot level is 9.0%, with the acceptable range being 8.0 to 10.0%.
So, if I add a control to adjust between 8.25% and 9.25%, that may just solve several problems:
With your current up to 85 kHz peak overshoot, you’d have to bring the level down 11.8% (75 / 85 = 0.88235).
If BreakawayOne then generates the pilot at 9.25%, the resulting pilot level would be 9.25 * 0.88235 = 8.16% which is just within the acceptable range.
9.25% pilot with 90 kHz peak, on the other hand, would have resulted in a pilot level of 7.71% (75 / 90 = 0.83333 9.25*0.83333 = 7.708), which is not in the acceptable range, and thus the design goal of not providing a band-aid that would mask severe issues is maintained.
It would allow OCD people to achieve exactly 9.0% pilot injection (instead of for example 8.9%)
Having the control there, with a limited range, means people won’t have to spend a week looking for it.So, yeah.
I shall do it forthwith.
Yes by the way, the USB dac completely replaces the output sound card. It does NOT have an input, however, so that will have to come from somewhere else.. for example from the built in stream receiver, which is very convenient anyway.
Best,
///Leif
IF YOU REQUIRE THE ORIGINAL EMAIL OR SCREEN SHOT DO NOT HESITATE TO ASK, OR EVEN THE PROGRAM THAT GOT ADJUSTED FOR ME AND ALSO THE PROGRAM I PAID FOR I CAN SUPPLY
ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING WAY TO TALK TO YOUR CUSTOMER
Have a good dayhello pos1
I don’t know what are you referring to with regard to the second chapter on the stereo tool forum.?“Now seriously. As far as I understand, it worked ok on the old hardware, but it doesn’t work on the new one. Why don’t you first suspect that something is wrong with the hardware?”
the phase was out on the original hardware , I also assumed it was the hardware, that’s why I tried 3 Different servers, and also a brand new sound card
About “bad” support, i see BAO as software for enthusiasts who don’t have money for expensive boxes. The author explained the basic setup with which the software becomes operational, and the rest is up to you. If you are in serious business, then you buy a piece of hardware that costs xxxx euro and you get xxxx pages of user instructions and online support.
you may see BAO as “software for enthusiasts, but I don’t! , are you saying that it’s not suitable for professional use? £500 plus hardware so around £1000 and the time to set up is the same cost as a standard BW audio hardware audio processor, the sound would not be as good but there is no windows machine to worry about hard drives and corruption, etc, and no setup time, and also no test equipment is needed, so I decided to exchange my time for better audio quality
if you are running a licensed FM radio station then you are committed to keeping your station on air, you have to as your license stipulates, so in my view, anyone with a license is a professional broadcaster regardless of your transmit power, if this software is only suitable for enthusiasts, that would be unlicensed stations that is a much smaller marketwith regards to the setup video, I agree it does show how to get it working but that’s about it, I found that I could not achieve my correct piot level so Leif put the piot level setting in the software so I could adjust it, I appreciated him doing it for me,
all the information I have been given while setting up IS not on the website, it has been sent to me by email, some information is on the old site like I said it needs pulling togetherwith regards to the 13-year-old broadcast soft, I spent hours setting it up because I wanted to know everything about it, I wanted to learn, and when something did not work I DID NOT assume it was the software, I always assume its user error IE something I was doing wrong, I spent days trying different settings, different soundcards, different servers, different versions of windows, reading what I could find online, to then find out that the software needed to have a pilot level adjuster putting in because it was nothing I was doing wrong,
back to the beginning “I asked what affects the phase ” the answer I got from milky was “the software controls it
” so I have no control to correct it, and I also do not know why its not correct after using all the recommended equipment
if the instructions and forum and website get pulled together that would be a big positive for breakaway
and if someone could tell me how to adjust the phase or what affects the phase that would be another big positive
breakaway is great apart from these 2 things in my view
have a good dayhello milky
thanks for your reply
when I first set up breakaway some 13 years ago I did it using an oscilloscope and getting the correct sound cards and also spending hours messing about with it so I had a better understanding of how to set it up, when breakaway one came along after having good results with the old version and my old server was about to die I upgraded, I did not go live straight away with it as my time like yours is very limited, I run a radio station plus other business so its hard to find time to keep my head in it,1 year later I felt it was ready to go so I went for it, there were very limited instructions, the web site was an amalgamation of the old site and new site, also the support forum was not on the breakaway site, it was all very disjointed
the first issue I had was that I could not get my rds level to the desired figure, because it was hard-coded into the software, after speaking with Leif and actually sending videos of what I was doing proving that there was an issue with the software I got something adjusted from his end ie he edited the program and gave me a way to adjust the rds level, so I was happy
, I did not want to put this on your forum but nobody has allowed me to email or speak privately about this I am not running the publicly released version, this was a lot of headaches and a lot of time taken up but it fixed the problem, which I appreciatedforward 2/3 years and there are still no decent instructions and no new releases put out
my setup methods and equipment I am using to test are of a professional grade, I have listed via email what I’m using and also the sound card I am using is also what I have been advised to use from Leif
I totally understand that the software is what phases the rds and the stereo pilot tone hence the reason for my reaching out “after spending many evenings trying to resolve myself ”
I emailed support and got asked to send in my config file and logs which I did and herd nothing
I emailed Leif and he basically asked me the same questions I had answered in the emails BEFORE I copied him in on the email trail as I understand he is doing other businessI have had to get on a forum and wait for replies and have been requested to repeat all the information I have been sending via email
breakaway is something I have actively promoted as a station owner since I have used it
things seem to have gone very quiet which makes me very nervous, breakaway is supposed to be used in a professional setting ie licensed radio stations, when things go wrong we do not have hours days, and weeks to fix things, I’m about to launch another radio project, It would have been more custom but now I’m either going to use hardware or move to stereo tool, being that bit louder and cleaner is not worth the stress all I need is for everything to work
I understand you are not aware of my setup, my equipment, or my skill set, all I wanted was for someone to reply to the file they asked for and tell me what affects the rds and pilot phase, you have answered this for me “the software does ” so the only problem I have is the software, I’ve tried 3 servers,2 soundcards , new USB cables, new MPX cable, using the build in oscilloscope and a hardware oscilloscope and I use a pira FM analyzer, and around 30 hours messing around with it countless emails, and forum posts
I’m not trying to be a moaning idiot, it’s the way it’s gone and I’m sure your patience would be gone to
good luck with the future
Cheers
markgood afternoon
just so I’m 100% Clear
my original machine was a dell 1950, it was running for about 2 years 24/7, but the rail on the back of the raid array blew some caps, and the machine kept crashing so I built a new machine using another dell 1950,
whilst I was building the new machine the old machine gave up for good so I went off the air, I had loads of spare parts this is when I discovered the rail issue, I replaced the server with identical hardware and imported the old raid config and was back up and running, the old machine now has a nasty noise in the background and the rds and pilot are out of phase this is what I’m on air with now this is in a live environment so I’m unable to mess around with it,I thought to myself I will just build a new one so I got another dell 1950 and bought a new DAC USB sound card installed server 2019 “the same os as the old machine ” and imported the settings I now have no noise but still the rds and pilot are out of sync, by quite a bit,
if you look at the email I sent to support that has all the info on it, I have a perfect square, and the sweep test all shows its correct, I have done everything I can think of to rectify this
please read the email trail that I sent directly to Leif also to support it will show you all the equipment I have and what I’m testing it with, I did receive an email requesting my config file, I sent it the same day and heard nothing back until Leif emailed yesterday and I’ve only just seen your reply,
please could you do this over email as logging into a forum when I’m out and working is going to be a very long-winded solution
many thanks
mark
