External device for ipod and other players

[Anonymous]

I wonder if there are plans to develop a stand alone interface device with the Breakaway algorithim and processor included that could be placed between an ipod and headphones, or amplifier? While the add on works great on a PC, the problem with varying volume on a stand alone MP3 player could be addressed with a standalone battery operated interface device. This device could be used on any audio signal to equalize and process the sound.

I was a big fan of VL for iTunes, glad to see your products are back!

Steve

[Leif]

Hi Steve!

This is a good idea in theory. We don’t have any plans to do it yet, but it’s not impossible that it could happen at some point.

The difficult part is that having an extra device makes it much less portable. It will need to be its own little box, have its own volume control and user interface, have its own battery which must maintain a change, etc.

Getting it into the iPod itself (through Apple) would be a much cleaner solution, but I doubt that could happen – it’s a very tricky Business-Development issue, and Apple does not seem to be a company that likes to let any aspect of their product out of their grasp (as they would be if they licensed someone elses algorithm).

Of course, if Breakaway as it is gets popular enough, who knows – maybe they’d listen. We’ll just have to hope for the best and see what happens. If you want to help, tell everyone you know about Breakaway 😉.

Thanks for your comments! Yes, it was about time to release something again. I’ve been busy with audio processing all this time (since VL) but they’ve all been strictly Pro products. It’s been fun to do something for consumers again!

///Leif

[Anonymous]

Hi Leif,

Thanks for the prompt answer. To have this software incorporated into the ipod/itunes module would be a win-win situation. Apple really needs to enhance their audio focus on the ipod, after all, the audio is what got the ipod where it is.

To incorporate Breakaway into the ipod would be something new under the sun so to speak. I know on certain message boards, people were thinking that Apple might purchase VL from Plantronics and incorporate it into itunes. I suspect that was wishful thinking on sombody’s part.

One other suggestion, would be to put the stand alone circuit into a drop in charger / base for the various ipod models. With either power from a wall transformer, or USB. I guess the biggest problem would be to have some sort of small LCD screen to indicate the settings if it were truly stand alone. The actual controls could be interfaced into a multi-function remote control similar to what is furnished with some of the car stereo head units.

Anyway thanks for the great work! I do think this product is an improvement over VL.

Steve

[Leif]

Hi Steve!

It would be indeed. If the iPod had something like Breakaway, I would own an iPod, no doubt.

As it is, I don’t have one. Since I have to pre-process the MP3s anyway, there’s no real benefit to having my full library, so I just fill up the 4gb memory stick in my sony ericsson phone with pre-processed MP3s and use that.

It was indeed wishful thinking. I don’t know if there ever were any talks with Apple — what I do know is that with the companies VL management talked to, they were demanding exorbitant licensing fees, resulting in no deals.

Settings would be a tricky thing indeed. Personally I’d be happy with Reference Settings and just an off-on-volume switch, but of course people will want to tweak it.

What are your favourite BA settings btw? What are you currently running?

///Leif

[Anonymous]

Hi Leif!

I am using Sony MDR V-6 headphones on a Dell Vostro 1500 with these settings:

Reference Heavy
Range 50
Power 43
Speed 54
Bass Boost +12
Bass Shape +10

I do use the PC on my home stereo system, but I have not played with the settings on that as of yet. I did use VL with the drive set very low. I thought the compression and release on VL with the drive up hurt the dynamic range too much. But for background smooth jazz type music, I didn’t care, and would use the FM magic with low drive.

So I will continue to play with the Breakaway settings.

By the way, I suspect if you could actually get Breakaway to Steve Jobs at Apple, and demonstrate what this program offers, he would be interested. I did send him an email about VL after Plantronics discontinued the product, but I did not receive a reply. Do you think that ipod has enough processor power to handle a "light" version of Breakaway? I suspect that to interface some version of an ipod Breakaway would require some compromises, but it would still be better than what they now have.

I have purchased the product, and I am waiting on the key now. Would you consider a discount for multi users? I would like to put it on a couple of other machines. I do have a Vista machine that I will want to upgrade when the new version comes out. I have run the free trial on the Dell Inspiron Vista laptop with the huge buffer, and so far no problems.

As for the stand alone version, the fixed settings would work just fine, and require less hardware. I’m sure just to equalize the various volume levels of the MP3’s would be a great addition to any MP3 player. There is a huge volume level difference from say an old Motown recording made in the 1960’s, to a a recent digital release of Larry Carlton playing guitar.

At any rate, thanks for the dialog on this forum. I wish your new venture much sucess!

Steve

[Leif]

Hi Steve!

Thanks for the info.

The Drive control in Volume Logic, actually switched presets. Much like the Less-More control in Orban’s professional broadcasting products, I designed 9 presets (Level 1 through 9) and the algorithm itself interpolated the in-between steps. The presets changed multiple core parameters at the same time, to process harder or lighter.

Breakaway on the other hand really only has one preset per preset. The three compression controls (range, power, speed) each adjust multiple core parameters, but they do so algorithmically – allowing near infinite variation. For example, if you want to retain more original long-term dynamics, but speed up the attack and release slightly, you can do that just as you have done (decrease Power, increase Speed).

I had a lot of fun writing the Bass Boost algorithm. Have you ever tried turning it all the way up? I dare say there’s no other Bass Boost algorithm quite like it 😉.

Multi-discount is not a bad idea. I’ll discuss it with my partner.

It would be very interesting showing it to Steve Jobs. Unfortunately from past experiences, the answer from a lot of people in that position, when you demo it, is: "We can do that ourselves, nothing to it". That is, until they try. Or even worse, they come up with something, and it "sounds fine" to them, and they ship. There’s SO many examples of this.

For example.. Almost every TV has something called "Smart Sound" which is supposed to equalize volume levels. Basically Breakaway’s job description. Does it work? Well, uh.. No.

I agree about the huge loudness differences. It’s nuts! If you look at most music mastered today (or the last 6-7 years) with an oscilloscope, you see how ruined the audio is from all the flat-tops. Pure distortion! Breakaway just happens to contain an accurate oscilloscope.. So if you didn’t already hear it, you get to see it 😉. (Gee, how did that get in there! What a coincidence!)

///Leif

[Leif]

Hi again, Steve!

After long and arduous discussions.. (Who am I kidding, it only took an e-mail!)

We’ve implemented multiple purchase discounts!

One copy of Breakaway is $29.95. Two are $49.95, three are $69.95.

Only catch is, you have to buy them all at the same time.

Thanks for the tip 🙂

///Leif

[Anonymous]

[quote author=”Leif”]Only catch is, you have to buy them all at the same time.[/quote]
But not all for just one computer!?

[Leif]

quote :

But not all for just one computer!?

Well of course not, that wouldn’t make any sense. There’s space to fill in as many hardware IDs as the number of licenses you’re buying.

[Anonymous]

HI Leif!

Thanks for the multi discount, I have already made one purchase, but I think I will have a couple of additional machines in the family that I will add Breakaway too. I have Vista on 2 of those machines. Do you anticipate any additional features when the true Vista version is released? And, when do you anticipate the release of the Vista version?

Again, thanks sharing some of the technical insight of your work with all of us in this forum. I am not involved in music or audio as a profession, but I have been involved with sound processing as an wannabe audiophile for years. Years ago I would compile playlists on tape, and manually adjust the level through a mixing board, sometimes with pretty poor results!

I did use a compressor / limiter later, but trying to go between a vinyl record on a turntable and track on a CD was a real knob chase. Then along came the MP3, and I tried to process those with a gain program to process and equalize the volumes of all the tracks. Pretty much nothing was satisfactory until VL. But the more I use Breakaway, the more I like it. I am certainly speading the word!

Thanks again for the your long and arduous, arm twisting, all-night keystroke argument with your partner to offer the multiple discounts! I hope that you didn’t destroy any keyboards in the process! Your full price is very much a bargain!

Steve

[Leif]

Hi Steve!

No worries. I never get tired of talking about audio processing (go figure!).

The VL core (or OctiMax 5.1 / OctiRAMA as it was also called) had a good run. Not only did we sell a lot of plug-ins (primarily for Macintosh/iTunes), but the Pro version ended up in lots of places too. AOL (or was it Yahoo) processed their whole library with it, it was used on the Live 8 streams, Digitally Imported (di.fm) used it on every channel, Max/MSP has OctiMax 5.1 algorithms built in, Cycling 74 ported and released a version for ProTools/TDM, and last but not least, the Linear Acoustic OctiMax 5.1 rackmount unit was used (and still is) on numerous HDTV networks around the united states.

And of course, it’s not a matter of professionals paying thousands of dollars for something that is worth $19.95, but really the other way around – that is, consumers paying twenty bucks for something that is really worth thousands of dollars 🙂. Of course, the professional versions interface with other hardware in a completely different manner, and allow a completely different level of control.

The VL core did have a few inherent issues that couldn’t be tweaked around. It tended to duck vocals too much, particularly with loud, powerful female vocals (think Celine Dion or Whitney Houston). Breakaway lets them through the way the singers vocal cords intended. I’ve learned a thing or two in the years that passed between inventing Volume Logic and inventing Breakaway 😉.

No worries about my keybord – I’m using an original Model M, manufactured in 1991. No joke! It weighs a ton, has that wonderful clickety-click feeling, and NEVER fails (knock on wood). It’s dead-on accurate, and lacks windows-keys! What more could a programmer want.

///Leif

[Anonymous]

[quote author=”Leif”]AOL (or was it Yahoo) processed their whole library with it, it was used on the Live 8 streams, Digitally Imported (di.fm) used it on every channel, Max/MSP has OctiMax 5.1 algorithms built in, Cycling 74 ported and released a version for ProTools/TDM, and last but not least, the Linear Acoustic OctiMax 5.1 rackmount unit was used (and still is) on numerous HDTV networks around the united states.[/quote]
You forgot your latest professional project, the AEROMAX-HDFM. But the processor is, according to the website of Linear Acoustic, not available any more. Why?

[quote author=”Leif”]The VL core did have a few inherent issues that couldn’t be tweaked around. It tended to duck vocals too much, particularly with loud, powerful female vocals (think Celine Dion or Whitney Houston). Breakaway lets them through the way the singers vocal cords intended. I’ve learned a thing or two in the years that passed between inventing Volume Logic and inventing Breakaway 😉.[/quote]
And the solution is: band-stop filtering.

[Leif]

quote :

You forgot your latest professional project, the AEROMAX-HDFM. But the processor is, according to the website of Linear Acoustic, not available any more. Why?

Aeromax-HDFM is on the air on one single FM station in the states – and it’s certainly the best sounding station in the nation. However, they’ve got a prototype unit.

Due to various circumstances such as:

– Hardware difficulties (there is no such thing as one sound card that can do 48khz Digital and 192khz Analog at the same time)

– Funding difficulties (it costs money to make a hardware unit)

– Questionable demand (FM radio in the states is not exactly booming with money at the moment, especially not after the HD-radio fiasco)

…

To make a long story short, it has never *really* been released.

However, I’ve been continuously improving it, and it’s just about as good as it can be now. I’m tired of seeing perfectly good inventions collecting dust on my shelf, so it IS going out this year – even if I have to release it as software initially. Stay tuned. 🙂

quote :

And the solution is: band-stop filtering.

Well, no – actually that’s basically what VL was (unintentionally) doing. The solution is NOT to do it 😉.

///Leif

[Anonymous]

Hi Leif,

Hope things are progressing well for you. I certainly am enjoying Breakaway!

I am still thinking about an external device. I am thinking of a concept to make this device somewhat like a (Motorola LS350) small single line digital display pager, this packaging concept has some of the bases covered with a scroll through menu with the small LCD screen on the top, and two or three control pushbuttons to index the presets and set their values. There should be room for 1/8" stereo in/out jacks, and perhaps a USB port in the bottom for line out from an ipod. This size device would use a single AAA battery for power.

Just my additonal thoughts on this concept. I don’t know how many people I have talked too that are looking for a real time AGC for their MP3 player. The Apple "sound check" that is built in itunes is some sort of level averaging, and it doesn’t work well. People that are using MP3 CD players have the same issue, since there are so many volume levels on MP3’s. Some people are using programs that scan the volume level of each song in the particular folder, and attempt to set the gain for all of the songs, but, imo, that is not effective either.

Mobile Breakaway is the answer, and everybody needs one!

Steve

[Leif]

Interesting idea!

I’ll keep it in mind, it could be useful, and once we’ve ported it to a dsp chip we’d also be able to offer it to hardware manufacturers for embedding.

Regarding Sound Check, it’s essentially equivalent to ReplayGain. It checks the average level of *the whole song* and sets ONE gain value based on this, to change the level of the whole song.

They tout it being Compression-Free as a feature, but I’m not so sure I agree (much like it’s not a good thing if my food is Taste-Free). It’s impossible to equalize well enough with only just a single volume change.. And what would you do when there’s dynamics in a song? Let’s say a DJ mix – classical music, or watching a movie?

///Leif

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