BBP test in this weekend

[didac]

Hi!

On past weekend, I test BBP on a:

AMD X2 5400+
2 GB of RAM
Integrated Audio Realtek HD Audio ALC 889A.
Windows Vista fresh install with latest drivers of all

I have a licensed Airomate 2.02beta.

I connect from mixer console to line IN Realtek.
I connect from green output to MPX input of the exciter.

The sound was very very very good, probably the best I’ve heard, but…..

1.- The noise gate should be configurable, I do not closed and was listening to a lot of noise.
2.- Every 15 minutes, the sound is intermittently during 1 second.
3.- I copy configuration of the web for use Airomate+pipeline VAC+BBP, but… In all receivers, the RDS was not working fluid, is hung, is updated every 2 minutes.

It’s possible that the Realtek does not have enough sampling to arrive at the RDS to do well?
It’s possible to use the same soundcard to input and output, the sound is corrupted every 15 minutes?
It’s necessary to put the buffer Airomate to 1000 ms? Why?

Thanks ! ! ! And… Sorry for my bad english, part of this text are traduced with Google Translator 😉

[Leif]

Hi Didac!

Good thing it at least sounds good 😉.

There will definitely be a version in the future where all parameters (including the noise gate) are configurable.

However, since you heard a lot of noise even in this version, I wonder, where did that noise come from?
Could you record the input to BBP and send? Just run a wave recorder on the same sound card as BBP, so that you record the unprocessed input, and also let me know what settings you used.

The reason I’m asking is that noise gates are not magic. If there is too much noise in the source material, it cannot be removed without also affecting the audio itself, even if you adjust every setting in the multiband noisegate.

Also, you might want to try the Oldies preset — it has the most aggressive noisegating of all presets.

Audio dropout every 15 minutes sounds like it could be a hardware or software issue. You might want to run BBP on a clean install of Windows XP, without any other software running on the same machine. Even though it runs in Realtime Priority, it’s still possible that other programs (or hardware) can interfere.

For example, I once had a computer where there was a slight audio glitch every 3 minutes (180 seconds), like clockwork. This happened with EVERY audio card, EVERY program. After troubleshooting for a long time, i finally realized that it was the Promise fasttrak SX4 raid controller that was causing it! Any time the driver was loaded, it would cause this interruption every 180 seconds. Very annoying, and technical support had no answers — I had to stop using the card completely!

It’s not *really* necessary to use 1000ms buffer in Airomate — it should work fine with lower settings, but because there is nothing to gain from lower RDS delay, I recommend the highest setting just to be sure.

The RDS problem you’re seeing is very strange — does it work better when you use Airomate directly with the sound card, without BBP?

Best regards,
///Leif

[Lee XS]

Hi Leif,

very impressive software, well done.

I have to agree with Didac regarding the noise gate, it is very bad unfortunatly. It definatly isn’t the source material, it’s simply just the floor noise being processed heavily thus becoming very noisey when a track finishes. I’ve had to use a seperate VST gate in front of BBP to cure this. This is something Tomassi from Sound Solution got to work very well, the gate in SS works perfectly.

Also, any chance of a 20hz high pass filter setting, instead of 30hz being the lowest?

Thanks

[Leif]

Modman, if it’s becoming too noisy when the track finishes, that means Range is set too high!

Breakaway is simply boosting the volume more than you want it to. If you turn down the Range control, the problem will go away completely.

I could add 20hz high pass in the future if it’s an important feature. Can you tell me where the 30 option causes problems? I would be very interested to know, I am always interested to improve Breakaway. 🙂

For FM, 20hz would not be a viable option, since many PLLs destabilize under 30hz.

///Leif

[Lee XS]

Hi Leif, I have range set to 40 but power set to 100, this sounds best for me but floor noise is always there. Maybe I’m picking up interference from my cables, this could be a possibilty but it doesn’t seem to do it on SS…

Regards to the 30hz filter, I feel that it cuts off some of the fat big bottom bass, most decent exciters will be ok with 20hz but yes, you are right, some cheap ones may have problems, the option would be nice for those using high end set ups. 😀

[Leif]

Modman, I would like to know what subwoofer you have that plays below 30hz, and also what songs you are playing. I have never found a song with bass notes below 30hz other than specific bass-test tracks!

Remember, the high pass filter can be turned off completely too. This way you can be sure to keep all subsonic information, if you really want it. 🙂

If you hear Breakaway bring up noise too much in the intro / outro, then Range is too high, it’s really that simple. Try 30, or maybe even 20!

It depends on what preset you’re using too. Helix tends to boost noise because of its extreme use of multiband compression — other presets may do better. It’s all a tradeoff — Breakaway doesn’t add any noise, but because of how smooth the compression is, it can be deceptive — one doesn’t notice how much the audio is really gained up, until you hear the noise.

You can find out the exact gain from looking at the meters. If the top of the Input AGC meter says 18dB, and the top of the Multiband meter says 12dB, and all meters are retracted all the way (as they would be when a song is fading out), then that’s 30dB of straight gain applied. For modern music, this isn’t really a problem, but if you have an older recording with -50dB noise floor, and boost it 30dB, then you’ll have noise at -20!

Downward expanders (noisegates) help somewhat, but it’s not magic, physical laws must still be obeyed.

Best regards,
///Leif

[Lee XS]

LOL…you’re correct, you can’t hear bass below 30hz but you can definatly feel it on a high quality monitering set up. When I compare 20hz to 30hz (low cut) using a good quality VST plug-in on Bessel filter, you definatly notice a difference!

As for the gate…I’ll record you a clip with and without the VST gate in front, for you to hear the differance. 🙂

[JesseG]

[quote author=”modman”]LOL…you’re correct, you can’t hear bass below 30hz but you can definitely feel it on a high quality monitoring set up. When I compare 20hz to 30hz (low cut) using a good quality VST plug-in on Bessel filter, you definitely notice a difference!

As for the gate…I’ll record you a clip with and without the VST gate in front, for you to hear the difference. 🙂[/quote]

I must be weird then, because I can hear bass under 20hz quite readily. I have a sub that hits -3db at 18hz too. 🙂 Did I mention I actually shattered one of my windows making the Helix preset this past summer?

@ Bessel, i bet it’s not anywhere near as sharp as Leif’s, so you’re probably hearing more like 45hz to 35hz (just an estimation from experience)

@ recording a clip, cool 8)

[Anonymous]

Hello JesseG!
Are you the same person thats appears on the sound-solutions forum?
"Curiosity killed the cat…" 😀

//Johnny

[Lee XS]

Right, I have a screenshot for you of both audio clips, With & Without the gate and the audio files, not that you need them, as the screenshot tells all! 😉

As you can see on the clip Without gate, BBP starts to rush the floor noise up after 17 seconds and 13 seconds into this, it’s at a mega -6db!

Then the clip With the external gate (set to my special perameters ) has nothing.

To be honest, any proper radio station that will be using BBP won’t get effected as they will NEVER have any audio silences, but it’s probably still a good idea to sort the gating issues as it’s an easy fix and it’s better with it, then without! 😀

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VK65062A
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BKA2FO18

[Leif]

Hi Modman!

Very interesting. Can you post the source audio clip, and the settings you’re using in BBP? I’d really like to see what’s going on.

Best regards,
///Leif

[didac]

Thank you all for supporting the idea that the noise gate is not short enough.

And thanks Leif by one of the best programs.

In my case, with SS, there is only silence, in BBP noise.

I realize that my noise comes from the mixing console, but with other programs, the processor it solves.

Is there a way to make the noise gate and expanders slower without changing the speed of multiband?

Thanks!!!!!

[Lee XS]

Hi leif,

I was using the Reference Heavy NR preset with these settings.

Drive +2.5
Range 45
Power 100
Speed 40
Bass Boost +20
Shape -20

I will dig out the original sample when i’m home… 😉

[Lee XS]

I’ve been doing some further tests on this and after installing BBP on 3 different PC’s all with different Sound cards I’ve come to an interesting conclusion. Basically, when using a standard on board sound card, BBP is picking up "dirty sound card" noise, resulting in floor noise being processed causing the floor rush in BBP.

When using an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Sound card this doesn’t happen so basically BBP is very sensitive to what you feed it and it must have minimal floor noise. In Didacs case, his console is causing the floor noise, causing BBP to be noisy but in mine it was the noisy on board card.

Leif, I know you want to keep the settings in BBP to the very minimal but I think a gate threshold level adjust wouldn’t go a miss fo rproblrms like these…Just like when you added the MPX EQ booster for sound card roll off! 😕

[Leif]

I understand. I’m still waiting for actual audio examples so I can see what’s going on. What I’ll need is a recording of the input to BBP, including noise and all.

The best way to accomplish this will be to run a wave recorder on the same sound card input that is being used for BBP. This way, I can play back and analyze, and I’ll get the exact same results as you’re getting.

///Leif

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