Home Forums Breakaway Professional Products – [discontinued] NEW: Breakaway Broadcast Processor ASIO 0.90.79

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #7597
    Leif
    Keymaster

    Hi Guillou!

    As always, there is no single easy answer!

    What I/O do you need? How many channels?

    For example, EMU Tracker Pre is a nice cheap external USB interface, and it handles 192 kHz well enough for MPX output, but it’s only 2 channels! So, you have FM Stereo MPX out, and MONO studio ultra low latency out, and that’s it.

    I have not personally used the EMU Tracker Pre.

    I have an EMU 0202 USB, and audio performance is good, but it usually fails to initialize when starting the computer, so I would not use it for unattended applications. Also it’s still only 2 channels.

    I have an EMU 0404 USB, and it works well, but it’s also just 2 channels.

    I have an Edirol FA-101 and Edirol UA-101, and they both work well. These are 8-channel cards, so you have enough I/O for everything.

    However.. NONE of the above interfaces will give you exactly buffer size 256 or 512! They give you many other sizes, but not those too. And that’s too bad, because those are the sizes used internally by the algorithm. It will run fine on a different buffer size, but CPU usage will be more uneven, so you may need a faster CPU to avoid glitches. Also latency will be a tiny bit higher, because it must still buffer to meet the internal buffer size.

    Also, don’t forget that external interfaces are more expensive than PCI cards for the same audio performance. If you’re building a dedicated PC (which you should be, they’re so cheap), I recommend you buy an internal PCI card, and get the lowest possible price AND lowest possible latency.

    Best regards,
    ///Leif

    #7598
    Guillou
    Member

    Thanks for your advice, so, if I use a dedicated PC, what kind of PCI card would be nice with BBP Asio. I heared good things about ESI Juli@ but you’ll probably know better…

    #7599
    Leif
    Keymaster

    ESI Juli@ is nice! I don’t have one myself, but I’ve used it, and I can definitely recommend it.

    It has 2 analog and 2 digital channels (single spdif). So, using only analog, you get FM Stereo MPX (17ms latency), and a mono ultra low latency studio output (8ms latency) to drive headphones, if 17ms is too slow for you to comfortably monitor. If 17ms is fast enough, just monitor off air. If you have a D/A converter which can handle 192k S/PDIF, you could get stereo ultra low latency output too.

    You can also of course run in full quality mode, for 500ms on-air latency, and still have the 8ms low latency output.

    ///Leif

    #7600
    Guillou
    Member

    Is this the lowest latency card that you have ever tested or is there better than this one ?

    #7601
    Leif
    Keymaster

    ESI Juli@, M Audio Audiophile 192, Marian Trace 8, and LynxTWO will all yield basically the lowest possible latency, with buffer size 256.

    Smaller buffer size than this could be a little bit faster, BUT, the internal buffer size of the algorithm is actually 512 samples. So, for ASIO buffer size 256, the program must buffer up two blocks (so that it has 512 samples), and then process ALL those 512 samples in the time of just ONE 256 sample block, so that it can output the first of those 256 samples during the current time period instead of having to wait for the next one. This means you need a faster cpu to run buffer size 256 than what is really necessary for the algorithm, because you need some headroom.

    If we used buffer size 128, it would be slightly faster — (latency might be 15ms instead of 17ms) — but you’d need a much faster cpu, because now the CPU must process 512 samples in one 128-sample time period (and sit idle for 3 periods until it has the next 512-sample block!)… Unfortunately due to the nature of my clipper algorithm, it cannot be broken up into smaller buffer size without compromising audio quality.

    Please note that this applies only to BBP ASIO.

    Breakaway Live does not use the clipper back-end, and can use ANY block size down to 48 samples without uneven cpu load or extra latency. It does not have to be an even multiple of anything.

    Marian Trace 8 is a nice card. 8 balanced analog inputs and outputs, DC STRAIGHT outputs (!!), and 192 kHz support. This card is ideal for an FM processor. It is quite a bit more expensive than ESI Juli@ or M-Audio AP192 — Trace 8 is €399 — but you get what you pay for. DC straight outputs means no tilt adjustment. It’s a different grade of card from pro-sumer ESI and M-Audio.

    That said, ESI Juli@ and M-Audio AP192 are a great match with BBP ASIO.

    Best regards,
    ///Leif

    #7602
    zhta1972
    Member

    What about the pricing ?

    #7603
    Ken
    Member

    [quote author=”Leif”]Marian Trace 8 is a nice card. 8 balanced analog inputs and outputs, DC STRAIGHT outputs (!!), and 192 kHz support. This card is ideal for an FM processor. It is quite a bit more expensive than ESI Juli@ or M-Audio AP192 — Trace 8 is €399 — but you get what you pay for. DC straight outputs means no tilt adjustment. It’s a different grade of card from pro-sumer ESI and M-Audio.
    [/quote]

    Is this the Marian card you talk about Leif ? http://www.marian.de/en/products/trace8

    #7604
    Leif
    Keymaster

    LynxTwo is the fastest of them all as far as I know, and the most expensive, at over $1000 per card. It’s also probably the least reliable.

    As I was saying, the card is not the limitation at these extremely low buffer sizes — the algorithms are.

    The inherent delay of my low latency FM algorithm is 12ms, and that assumes the audio to already be in blocks of 512 samples. If you run my algorithm as such, the output will also be in blocks of 512 samples, but the data in those blocks will be delayed by 2304 samples due to internal algorithm filtering, so in fact it gets delayed by 12 milliseconds.

    Calculating ASIO latencies is a pain in the neck. When designing the low latency algorithm, I actually ended up using scraps of paper on the table (to symbolize audio buffers) to try to wrap my head around it!

    ///Leif

    #7605
    Decibel
    Member

    Leif,

    Is it possible to use SPDIF as input with BBP ASIO?

    Herman.

    #7606
    Leif
    Keymaster
    quote :

    Is it possible to use SPDIF as input with BBP ASIO?

    Yes, absolutely. BBP ASIO doesn’t care. But, as always, there’s a gotcha:

    To get MPX Out, you must run BBP ASIO at 192000 Hz. This means that all inputs and outputs will run at 192000 Hz, S/PDIF included.

    S/PDIF wasn’t meant to run that fast. It will work, but a lot of devices don’t support it.
    Also, to use SPDIF input, you need to either let the incoming S/PDIF be the clock master (which will probably be 48000 Hz — wrong rate!) OR you will need a sound card with a sample rate converter on the S/PDIF input. That’s a different price class altogether. We’re not talking the €150 ESI Juli@ or M Audio Audiophile 192, we’re talking the €459 Marian Trace Pro AE.

    For all its flaws, analog is much easier to deal with. Signal too hot for the input? Two resistors per channel — done. Signal too quiet for the input? Boost it, either in software or by adding an amplifier, and you’re done. Interference? Get a better cable and eliminate ground loops — done.

    ///Leif

    #7607
    Anonymous
    Guest

    On my system, when ‘Audio Realtime Priority’ is enabled, the plugins will not load correctly. When I try to configure the plugins, the corresponding windows appear but the do not respond. After a while the title for these windows changes to ‘not responding’. When ‘Audio Realtime Priority’ is not enabled the plugins work fine. This happens with all plugins I tried: both your impact/clunk plug-in and the dsp_vst plugin.

    I’m running the latest Breakaway ASIO (low latency mode) on an Intel E4500, Esi Juli@ (latest drivers: 1.05) and Windows XP SP3 (32bit).

    #7608
    Leif
    Keymaster

    Thank you for the report! I may have screwed something up. Will look into it.

    ///Leif

    #7609
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Leif, would much like to download this, and give it a try, should the link work to me? don’t seem to be able to get it to work sadly 🙁

    #7610
    Leif
    Keymaster

    Hi Josh!

    Yes, the link should work. I just tried it, works fine here, can’t find anything wrong.

    ///Leif

    #7611
    Anonymous
    Guest

    [quote author=”sfinx”]On my system, when ‘Audio Realtime Priority’ is enabled, the plugins will not load correctly. When I try to configure the plugins, the corresponding windows appear but the do not respond. After a while the title for these windows changes to ‘not responding’. When ‘Audio Realtime Priority’ is not enabled the plugins work fine. This happens with all plugins I tried: both your impact/clunk plug-in and the dsp_vst plugin.

    I’m running the latest Breakaway ASIO (low latency mode) on an Intel E4500, Esi Juli@ (latest drivers: 1.05) and Windows XP SP3 (32bit).[/quote]

    Hi,
    I’ve got exactly the same problem… Leif check it out 🙂

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 41 total)
  • The forum ‘Breakaway Professional Products – [discontinued]’ is closed to new topics and replies.