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Hi Leif,
Is there any chance you can post a chart on here of the relation in -50 to +50 has on the bass frequencies?
For example…
-50 = 30Hz
-40 = 40Hz etc… 😉You got it 🙂.
When cutting bass, EQ isn’t affected. Instead, the B1 and B2 multiband agc thresholds are lowered (compared to where they are by default in the selected preset).
Bass Cut -50, Shape +50: B1 -12, B2 -12
Bass Cut -50, Shape 0: B1 -12, B2 -6
Bass Cut -50, Shape -50: B1 -12, B2 0Bass Cut -25 gives you half the cut (i.e. -6, -3 for shape 0).
Bass Cut is a great way to clean up the sound, because it still retains the bass boost inherent to many presets, while lowering the thresholds for essentially "more bass compression".
If you BOOST, on the other hand, several things happen — more and more depending on how far you turn it up. Be careful, there’s a lot of available power here 😉.
Assuming Bass Boost +50 (bassclippingorama):
Shape 0: B1 out mix +12, B2 out mix +3, B1/B2 agc thresh: +7.25, and PEQ +14.5dB, 23 Hz, 3.0 Octaves
Yes, that’s insane. I never intended for people to actually use Bass Boost +50, I just had to make sure the maximum setting was sufficiently over the top, to be able to tell anyone deaf enough to want more to go away, or buy a subwoofer.Looking at a more sane bass boost setting of +15:
Shape 0: B1 out mix +4.75, B2 out mix +1.25, B1/B2 agc thresh 0 (the thresholds don’t start rising until bass boost is ABOVE +20), and PEQ +4.75dB, 23 Hz, 3.0 octaves
Let’s stick to bass boost +15 and explore other Bass Shape options (agc threshold omitted since they’re not affected at this setting):
Shape -50: B1 out mix +4.75, B2 out mix +0.00, PEQ +4.75dB, 40 Hz, 1.0 octaves
Shape -33: B1 out mix +4.75, B2 out mix +0.00, PEQ +4.75dB, 35 Hz, 1.6 octaves
Shape -16: B1 out mix +4.75, B2 out mix +0.25, PEQ +4.75dB, 28 Hz, 2.3 octaves
Shape 0: B1 out mix +4.75, B2 out mix +1.25, PEQ +4.75dB, 23 Hz, 3.0 octaves
Shape 16: B1 out mix +4.75, B2 out mix +2.0, PEQ +4.75dB, 33 Hz, 3.0 octaves
Shape 33: B1 out mix +3.0, B2 out mix +3.0, PEQ +4.75dB, 50 Hz, 3.0 octaves
Shape 50: B1 out mix +0.0, B2 out mix +4.75, PEQ +4.75dB, 71 Hz, 3.0 octavesBy the way, this exact algorithm is also in Breakaway Personal.
People have no idea how much effort they’re getting for that measly $29.95 😉.
///Leif
Do the other controls have a similar correspondence to their functions (like compression ratio etc.), or does it vary depending on the preset?
The other controls are just as complicated, yes. Each control adjusts multiple parameters inside the core. Each preset sets 150 (!) parameters, and the gui sliders then make adjustments on multiple controls from there, based on rules and extensive listening tests.
For example, when adjusting Speed downwards, not only does the attack and release for every band (as well as the input agc) slow down, it also raises the multiband limiter thresholds, and progressive release increases.
As an example, here’s the Plutonium preset:
code :presetname=Plutonium
gating_threshold=-30
freeze_threshold=-50
mb_gating_threshold=-30
mb_freeze_threshold=-50
inagc_ratio[0]=100
inagc_range[0]=50
inagc_atk[0]=22
inagc_rel[0]=24
inagc_threshold[0]=27
inagc_filter[0]=1
peq_level[0]=100
peq_freq[0]=4
peq_q[0]=30
peq_level[1]=50
peq_freq[1]=71
peq_q[1]=20
peq_level[2]=50
peq_freq[2]=2
peq_q[2]=30
ng_range=0
num_bands=6
mbagc_ratio=75
mbagc_range=58
mbagc_progressive=40
ng_threshold[0]=-50
ng_atk[0]=50
ng_rel[0]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[0]=0
mbagc_atk[0]=39
mbagc_rel[0]=55
mbagc_threshold[0]=50
mblim_threshold[0]=58
outmix[0]=70
mbclip_threshold[0]=66
ng_threshold[1]=-50
ng_atk[1]=50
ng_rel[1]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[1]=1
mbagc_atk[1]=44
mbagc_rel[1]=65
mbagc_threshold[1]=50
mblim_threshold[1]=47
outmix[1]=53
mbclip_threshold[1]=66
ng_threshold[2]=-50
ng_atk[2]=50
ng_rel[2]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[2]=1
mbagc_atk[2]=48
mbagc_rel[2]=65
mbagc_threshold[2]=50
mblim_threshold[2]=58
outmix[2]=50
ng_threshold[3]=-50
ng_atk[3]=50
ng_rel[3]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[3]=1
mbagc_atk[3]=48
mbagc_rel[3]=65
mbagc_threshold[3]=50
mblim_threshold[3]=60
outmix[3]=52
ng_threshold[4]=-50
ng_atk[4]=50
ng_rel[4]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[4]=0
mbagc_atk[4]=48
mbagc_rel[4]=70
mbagc_threshold[4]=60
mblim_threshold[4]=60
outmix[4]=52
ng_threshold[5]=-45
ng_atk[5]=50
ng_rel[5]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[5]=0
mbagc_atk[5]=48
mbagc_rel[5]=75
mbagc_threshold[5]=58
mblim_threshold[5]=33
outmix[5]=63
ng_threshold[6]=-50
ng_atk[6]=50
ng_rel[6]=50
inf_ratio_above_thresh[6]=0
mbagc_atk[6]=4
mbagc_rel[6]=5
mbagc_threshold[6]=50
mblim_threshold[6]=0
outmix[6]=50
final_lim_drive=55
output_level=106
bass_clipper_enable=1
bass_clipper_threshold=20
preset_version=3
user[0]=50
user[1]=50
user[2]=50
user[3]=50
user[4]=50
user[5]=50
user[6]=50
user[7]=50
user[8]=50
user[9]=50
user[10]=50
user[11]=50
user[12]=50
user[13]=50
user[14]=50
user[15]=50
wb1.delay=0
wb1.enable=1
wb1.atk=50
wb1.rel=50
wb1.progressive=25
wb1.range=0
wb1.maxgr=100
wb1.ratio=67
wb1.threshold=75
wb1.gating_threshold=-30
wb1.freeze_threshold=-40
wb1.peq_level[0]=29
wb1.peq_freq[0]=15
wb1.peq_q[0]=30
wb1.peq_level[1]=50
wb1.peq_freq[1]=20
wb1.peq_q[1]=20
wb1.peq_level[2]=50
wb1.peq_freq[2]=20
wb1.peq_q[2]=20
wb2.delay=0
wb2.enable=0
wb2.atk=50
wb2.rel=50
wb2.progressive=50
wb2.range=25
wb2.maxgr=25
wb2.ratio=50
wb2.threshold=50
wb2.gating_threshold=-30
wb2.freeze_threshold=-40
wb2.peq_level[0]=50
wb2.peq_freq[0]=20
wb2.peq_q[0]=20
wb2.peq_level[1]=50
wb2.peq_freq[1]=20
wb2.peq_q[1]=20
wb2.peq_level[2]=50
wb2.peq_freq[2]=20
wb2.peq_q[2]=20///Leif
WOW! So much for so little (processing for $). You’ve done a great job of making our job’s easier. Thank you, now and forever…
Fantastic…thanks for this info Leif….I was about to post the exact question!!
Looking forward to see what you are going to come out with next. Any chance we can get an idea of what’s on the horizon? 😆
Fantastic products!
That’s a great list of parameters! Can’t wait for the full-control version to get my hands on each of them seperately 8)
[quote author=”Leif”]As an example, here’s the Plutonium preset:[/quote]
Fascinating to study these parmameters, Leif!
I have one question: Plutonium is a 6-band preset, but there seem to be 7 sets of multiband parms in that listing (numbered 0 through 6). Is it using all 7 of those somehow, or is it just that one of them is unused?
The settings are there but just ignored since, in the case of Plutonium, band 6 goes up to 22kHz since it’s the highest band. 💡 If it was a 4 band preset, the highest band would also go to 22kHz, and there would still be 7 bands listed in the preset file, with bands 5-7 settings just being ignored since there are no such bands. And of course in a 7 band preset, it’ll use all band settings.
Leif, are those preset settings compiled into the executables/dlls or are those found in an .ini file ? I would love to play with those for a while…
Cheers
Ricardo
Oh, I can answer that one! The parameters Leif listed above are hard-coded into the EXE file.
The INI file only contains the user-adjustable settings (it does not contain the parameters listed above).
Some of the hard-coded parameters can be modified by changing the user-adjustable settings (such as attack & release times, thresholds, compression ratios, final drive).
But other hard-coded settings (such as "outmix") cannot be modified. Leif has said that the full-control version later will allow you to control those parameters.
Leif,
I have a question regarding bass reduction and headroom.
Is it preferable, technically, to use the bass controls to back off the bass a bit, or to use the HPF in the settings section?
I guess what I am asking is where they sit in the signal flow. I’ve tried both backing off the bass level, and tried leaving the bass normal, and upping the HPF setting to say 45Hz.
I find depending on the preset, the bass will be stronger or weaker, typically with modern music leaning to the bass heavy side…especially way down low. I can just chop the heaviness off with the HPF, but I was wondering if that may still cause BL to have to deal with it, only to be chopped off later…seems a bit silly if it would be better to reduce it pre-processing, and not move the HPF above 30Hz. Obviously the bass controls offer more flexibility, but I try to keep things as simple as possible, adjusting only what I really need to, beyond where the preset gets me. Strange, but even though this is processing, I try to keep an audiophile-ish approach of less is more…let the preset get you as close to a sound you desire, and tweak slightly, if at all, from there. The low end usually is the area where some cleanup is needed it seems.Example: Leave HPF at 30Hz and back bass off to -10 or -15, or leave bass flat and move HPF to 45Hz.
Audibly they seem to have a similar effect, just wondering which you would suggest.
Thanks!
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