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There is something odd spinning in my head for some time.
I hear (using HQ headphones) a very subtle difference in quality either I play a WAV (or a decoded MP3, AAC, Ogg, whatever) inside an audio editor (Wavelab, Adobe Audition, Audacity and others) or with an audio (media) player (foobar2000, Winamp, etc.).
Even when I remove any DSP, EQ or the Breakaway system from the audio player chain and use the same audio driver (even using foo_out_ks.dll in foobar or MAD decoder in Winamp) there is still this very small difference.
Playing an audio file (even WAV) inside an audio editor it seems as if there are more details (a little more micro dynamics).
Playing the same files with an audio player it sounds a little bit too flat (in comparison to audio editors).But there is one exception:
Young people maybe do not know it, but some of the older guys here will remember the discontinued Sonique player.
When I want the maximum quality I still use the final Sonique V1.96 (released January 2002 !!!).
This player uses (if enabled in it options) a decoder called AudioEnlightenment 4.882.
As far as I understand (the information I have researched) it is an MPEG (MP3) decoder.
So this should not have any influence for WAV playback.
But even WAVs played with Sonique sound much better (as in any other audio player I have tried) and on almost the same quality level as played inside an audio editor.Tweaking some settings inside Sonique’s options (e.g. enable/disable AudioEnlightenment, etc.) I came to the conclusion, that there are some other settings with an (odd and somehow illogical) influence to the audio quality.
Of course the built-in equalizer should be disabled.
But there is another option called "spline-tension".
In theory this option should only make sense in conjunction with an enabled EQ, but I found out that the sound quality is better (more micro dynamics ?) when it is enabled (with a disabled EQ and all sliders in neutral positions !).
And it seems that even WAV files sounds better when AudioEnlightenment (MP3 decoder !) is enabled.I do not know what is going on here.
I have tried the last Sonique 2 beta 103, but this is very unstable and buggy
(and it needs hours to understand how to use it when you run it for the first time).Using google search I have found some comments in different forums other the years where people tell the same thing (that they prefer Sonique’s audio quality and have never found an alternative for its sonic quality).
To give you a better idea about what differences I am talking, here is a little
subjective comparison:If playing a WAV inside Wavelab or Audition is 100 % quality,
than Sonique 1.96 reaches 99,7 %
Sonique 2 beta 103 99,5 %
foobar2000 96 %
and Winamp 95 %So if there are moments you do not know what to do (you have too much time) then it would be nice to get some feedback from your own experiences.
The next test would be to record the output of all of the programs you are testing, at the correct sample rates, save to WAVs and put them into a program like WinABX… and blind ABX test them… to see if you can ACTUALLY hear a difference to a statistically significant level.
It is impossible to be completely unbiased, no matter how hard any of us try, it is a naturally occurring phenomena that is unavoidable if we know what the source is. So you must blind ABX it, or any results are not objective at least up to the point of "can you hear the difference at all, or not".
If you can really hear a difference, then which one sounds "better" is obviously subjective. But the first step is to prove to yourself that you can really hear the difference at all.
Good luck. And post your test results here if you find anything conclusive.
My interest is peaked (piqued?)! I’m always looking for the best sounding audio. Jesse, Leif and a number of you all have really guided and taught me a lot about quality. Face it, it’s why we’re all here drooling over what Jesse says will be "jaw-dropping"!
If you could really come up with some compelling evidence as to which player is "best" I’m game to changing. The only caveat would be whether the victorious app would be compatible with winamp plugins….
Thanks!
Just wanted to second Jesse on this one- there have been quite a few occasions where I used an ABX tester and discovered that something I thought I was hearing, I wasn’t actually hearing. It’s been a sobering experience, exposing the faults in my own psychology.
There’s an ABX tester for foobar2000 as well; pretty easy to use.
This situation is a particularly good candidate for ABX testing, since you referred to the differences as "subtle" and "very small". That makes it more likely that the mind is playing tricks on itself.
@ Jesse and celar
Your suggestions about blind ABX tests and recording the different outputs are very rational.
I will do some bit by bit comparisons and spectral analysis.
In 2008 I have done this for VAC 4.08, Total Recorder’s old user-mode and the newer kernel-mode virtual device driver.
And surprisingly Total Recorder’s old user-mode driver was the only of these 3 to record a WAV bit true.
On Total Recorder’s homepage you can read:
"The system mixes audio streams being played before it arrives in the kernel-mode driver. Audio streams being played can only be recorded in mixed form."
This explains why the newer kernel-mode virtual device driver cannot record bit true.
But on VAC homepage you can read:
"All transfers are made digitally, providing NO sound quality loss (a bitperfect streaming)."
http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
Maybe I was too dumb to set the VAC driver properly inside Total Recorder, but all my tests lead to the conclusion, that the usage of VAC is not "a bitperfect streaming" connection, because it uses the same kernel system as Total Recorder’s virtual device ("Audio streams being played can only be recorded in mixed form." TR homepage).Anyway.
Even if ABX tests and/or bit by bit comparisons will show that there is no difference and everything is based on subjective phenomena than it is still there.
Subjectivity is objective (Woody Allen in "The Last Night Of Boris Gruschenko") !
So all denying ABX tests are more or less irrelevant.
Human brains are not bit true calculating computers.
Everybody knows (you don’t have to be a neuro scientist) that different colours have different effects to the subjective feelings of different human beings.
It makes a difference e.g. if you are using a blue or red skin for your player.
It is irrelevant to compare (to record streams) and to prove that it is always the
same audio (bit true independent if you use a red or a blue skin).
You can hear the difference (that does not exist in the audio stream) !
It is same thing as to love somebody desperately.
You can explain that it is all based on biological, chemical reactions inside your body.
But does this scientific knowledge help you to control your feelings ?
No !@ timmywa
Sonique 1.96 does not support Winamp DSPs, but this is irrelevant, because you can use Breakaway Live 0.90.96b (even an unregistred trial in bypassed mode !) to host Winamp DSPs (Sonique using Breakaway Pipeline as audio output)!
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