Home Forums Breakaway Professional Products – [discontinued] Impedance of MPX cable and adapters

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  • #797
    Martin S
    Member

    Hi all.

    I have a question regarding the impedance of the cable used for sending the MPX signal from Breakaway to my STL. As far as I know, low impedance = low signal loss. Therefore I’m currently using a 50 ohm cable. However, since my STL has BNC input and I’m using a Marian Trace Alpha card, I have to use two adapters (jack to cinch & cinch to BNC).

    I haven’t been able to find 50 ohm adapters, or at least none that have the label "50 ohm", and since I know transitions from one impedance value to another give signal reflections and the like, I’m afraid this somehow affects the quality of the signal. I don’t have access to an oscilloscope, so I can’t test it, and if I had one, I wouldn’t know what to look for 😳
    How big would this effect be for a signal going from a couple of 75 ohm adapters to a 50 ohm cable?
    Would it be better to run 75 ohm all the way?

    Now don’t get me wrong, my (average) ears don’t hear any problems with the on-air sound, I just want all my bases covered 😀

    #10619
    JesseG
    Member

    As far as I know, the cable and adapters should have as little impedance as possible, unless the amp driving the load requires it in partnership with the load.

    The whole rating on cable with impedance anyways is a thing from the old coax communication days, where they needed to know how much a very long coax run (we’re talking 50-100+ miles here) would have.

    So you have cable rated for 50 ohms of impedance, but at what length does it hit 50 ohms? 😉 I think if you measure the cable, it’s very very low impedance already, and nothing near 50 ohms.

    I don’t recommend using an adapter that has impedance or transformers unless you’re able to measure some improvement in signal to noise or distortion. 8)

    #10620
    yorkie98
    Participant

    Nice answer there JesseG 😉
    In laymans terms, when running a simple audio cable from a soundcard to a transmitter, the impedence is of little or no consequence, Just make up the correct lead and plug it in.
    Your TX will most likely have a 75ohm BNC connector on it, so one of those (if you cant get a 75, a 50 will do) and your Trace Marian Alpha card will have a 6.25mm jack plug. use some reasonable grade shielded cable inbetween any you are ready to go.

    Yorkie.

    #10621
    Leif
    Keymaster

    Afaik, an impedance mismatch leads to level loss and/or HF roll-off. Nothing the PEQ can’t fix, if necessary 🙂.

    ///Leif

    #10622
    Sparky
    Member

    Impedance matching is only relevant when transferring power from the driving source to a load. In the case of a broadcast transmitter output amplifier (at the connector) it is designed to have a 50 ohm source impedance. The transmitter load is an antenna with a termination value of 50 ohms resistive. In order to minimize the power transfer loss between the two devices, the conduit (aka coax) must exhibit the same impedance as the source and the load.

    Coax cable (or wave guide) at high frequencies is essentially a distributed combination of series inductors and parallel capacitors creating a "balanced out" component. Or in other terms, the series inductive reactance gets canceled out by the parallel capacitive reactance leaving only resistance as a loss component. Reactive components only store energy, where as resistive components convert energy into work (heat). So an ideal cable is essentially a lossless conduit for RF energy (think of it like a bucket brigade where no water dribbles out or is spilled). Real world cables do exhibit losses from two areas. The most significant loss is the dielectric absorption properties from the plastic, foam, or air that fills the space between the center conductor and the sheath. The other loss (minor) comes from the actual resistance of the conductor metals (copper).

    In this situation where you are connecting a soundcard mpx output to an exciter input, true impedance matching is not much of an issue for a couple of reasons.
    1. The source impedance of a sound card varies greatly depending on the brand, the output driver circuit design, and the type of output being used ie. headphone output (8-200 ohms), line output (200 ohms to several 1000’s of ohms or more).
    2. The exciter mpx input designs are mostly if not all high impedance inputs. Typically 10k ohms or more.
    3. Due to the low frequencies that make up the mpx signal (practically DC compared to 100’s or 1000’s of MHz) the series inductive component of the coax is so small it essentially provides little contribution in balancing out the parallel capacitance of the cable. In this case 50 ohm coax is nothing more than fancy shielded wire where the impedance of the cable has little relevance.

    If the sound card output and the exciter input were both 50 ohms, then yes, the cable impedance would become a factor worthy of consideration. But since this is not the case, worrying about 50 ohm connectors and cable impedance matching is a moot point.

    What you need to concentrate on most in creating a low loss connection between the soundcard output and the exciter mpx input is to keep the cable lengths as short as possible, and use the highest quality cable that exhibits the lowest capacitance per unit length (i.e. xxx pF per foot/meter).
    Using low quality cable with high distributed capacitance essentially creates a low pass filter that rolls off the higher frequency components of the mpx signal. Leif has been clever enough to design in tilt compensation to mitigate this roll-off effect (special output pre-emphasis to boost the higher mpx frequencies), but it has a finite boost range. So it’s up to you to use the best cable available that ensures the mpx signal remains properly equalized (flat) when it arrives at the exciter input.

    Note: When making sound card tilt adjustments it’s very important that you measure the mpx signal at the exciter input, not at the sound card output. Doing so allows you to compensate for the cable roll-off effects.

    #10623
    JesseG
    Member

    As far as I knew everything exhibited some kind of load unless it was super-conducting. But that sort of goes beyond the scope of the discussion. 😀

    So ~no load is no load, for the sake of simplicity here. 😆

    #10624
    Milky
    Keymaster

    Geez Martin S, I’m glad you asked!

    #10625
    Martin S
    Member

    Wow, thanks for all the answers. It seems my question was part of a bigger issue.
    I’m using a 5 meter cable, so length shouldn’t be a problem. I might just invest in a high quality cable though, just to be on the safe side. Can anyone recommend certain types of cable with low capacitance pr. length?

    #10626
    JesseG
    Member

    Mogami cables are awesome, that’s all I use now. I buy by the spool, and use Neutrik gold-plated connectors. But they do sell ready-made cables too. Lower capacitance and inductance than most other cables costing waaaaay more per foot.

    #10627
    Leif
    Keymaster

    [quote author=”Martin S”]Can anyone recommend certain types of cable with low capacitance pr. length?[/quote]

    Yes, Belden 1694A. I used 600ft of it for a 200ft component video run out to my outdoor theater projector, and got a crisp shadow-free 720p image. Best coax I’ve ever seen, I hear it was the de-facto standard for internal runs at TV stations. Of course, this is total overkill for MPX. Component video at 720p is 20 MHz (if i remember correctly), MPX is 60 kHz.

    Any decent audio cable should be fine. Reasonable overkill would be a composite video cable.

    ///Leif

    #10628
    Boki
    Member
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