tornado split

[camclone]

Ok Ok,

I hear the distortions , i hear the bad coluring of high frequencies.

But this thing doesn’t sound like that ON FM broadcast.

I will make a seperate proccecing for FM and for Streaming.

Thank’s everyone.

[Leif]

Camclone, yes it does. It sounds just as distorted on FM broadcast, it’s just that you’re not hearing it through the radio you’re testing with, or when comparing with other stations (which are even more distorted). One thing is for sure though — FM transmitters, airwaves and radios do not magically improve the sound. What you get out of the speaker of a radio CAN NOT POSSIBLY be better than what the audio processor put out! It can only get worse.

This is why other audio processing manufacturers marketing strategies aggravate me to such a serious degree. This whole "take it home, hook it up to your transmitter, you’ve gotta hear how it sounds in YOUR environment" is pure unadulterated BS. It just makes it impossible to listen properly. An audio processor needs to be tested on the bench, and the real-world installation needs to be made to emulate the bench sound — not the other way around.

It’s really pretty simple — if there is ANY modification to the processed output signal (further clipping, phase errors, non-flat frequency response, tilt etc) it will show up as *loss of peak control* on an oscilloscope, and/or *spectral contamination* on a spectrum analyzer. Thus, if you’re seeing a tight signal off the airwaves (using a modulation monitor), the only conclusion is that the signal *is not being modified* (if it was, you wouldn’t be have tight peak control), and thus what you get on the air is exactly what the audio processor puts out… which brings us back to the bench test — it’s valid.

Using a high quality encoder to stream the output of an FM processor, while not representative of peak control, IS a valid representation of the sound for listening purposes. The streaming encoder can not possibly create this kind of distortion, thus we must conclude that the distortion was already there at the output of the audio processor, and that it is in fact on your airwaves too.

Any audio processor can be set up to sound bad — including BBP. If a processor cannot, that means the control range is too narrow. It’s possible to crank it — but that doesn’t mean that you *should*.

Camclone, what settings are you running now?

INI file settings do not matter (they are only a representation of the on-screen sliders, there are no hidden settings accessible from the ini file), so you can just read the on-screen slider values as usual. If you don’t want to reveal the settings, PM me instead, I’ll read it and make a recommendation. (My gut feeling is that I’ll be recommending the final drive to be turned down a lot). 😉

Best,
///Leif

[sgeirk]

Actually, I think it could be better on FM…particularly if the levels feeding the encoder are way too hot…which is almost what this sounds like. Hard to know…without knowing where the encoder is getting it’s audio.

[camclone]

Wow!
After 8 more hours of listening on DIFFERENT sound systems with high quality speakers…i found that my stream was the worst sounding stream (at 128 kbps) at the world.

Finnaly, the problem was on the encoder’s imput and NOT on breakaway program.

The problem was very very simple.
Volume clipping .

If you check it now , you will listen it cleaner than ever.
NOW it is like the FM sound.
That sound that you will hear now is the exact sound i hear from the FM reciever i ve got,
No tilt problems, no overmodulation,
everything was fine ON FM ..air!
the problem was ONLY at the stream
Check it now for MORE than 10 minutes to be sure ( 4 at 10 songs are bad recordings becuse of oldies..)
Breakaway makes the best re-mastering i ve ever seen NOW with my configuration.

check
mms://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm
http://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm

…it’s loudest and acceptable clear enough . ( THIS is finnaly my FM SOUND)

[Leif]

No no no no no no NO.

It sounds EXACTLY as bad. Come on, man! Are you making a joke? Are you pulling my leg here?

That’s not healthy audio I’m seeing (or hearing), Cam.

I think you need to start over with a factory preset, it seems these settings are beyond repair.
Try New York, Final Drive -0.5, Range 40, Power 40, Speed 50, Bass Normal, Bass Shape 0.
Then, leave it like that so that I can listen and verify that it sounds okay. If it doesn’t, we’ll know it’s a problem in the chain either before or after BBP.

///Leif

[sgeirk]

I think it sounds like it has slightly more dynamics than before. I hear excessive bass hole punching…and lots of midrange dirt that’s not necessary. Back off everything, input, output…I dunno. Breakway didn’t do this to me, even when….well….once, just for grins, I moved all the setting up full-tilt. I did it once, just for giggles. Had to.

[JesseG]

Here’s a FLAC of what your FM *should* sound like (if you want to be paint-peeling loud), with the settings Leif just recommended. Used before Breakaway Broadcast was Winamp plugins:
Attenuate 3dB
Impact/Clunk (Clunk:1 Slam:2)
Bass-EFX (Bass:2)

Into:

Note: the + means it’s the private version with total control. the New York preset in it is the exact same one that comes with normal BBP, and *nothing* was tweaked with the preset editor. the sound is *exactly* the same that would come from normal BBP, bit for bit.

I also did WMA encodings and Lame MPEG1 layer3 as a standard to hold yourself up to with mp3 as well.

AVA Greek Demo – New York 50uS.flac
AVA Greek Demo – New York 50uS – 128kbps.wma
AVA Greek Demo – New York 50uS – 128kbps.mp3

With WMA you could probably get away with like 80kbps before people start to notice it’s not the usual "CD" quality coded audio. This is WMA v9.2. With mp3, it depends. Many encoders don’t even sound this good at ANY bitrate.

This happens to be Lame 3.93.1, with settings:
–alt-preset cbr 128 -q 0

And I might add that there is no reason to be this dense on air. Even with a preset like Plutonium you’re still going to peak as loud as the loudest stations on the dial, and you’ll give your music room to breath which will make your listener share go way up. Not to mention the real advantage is that Breakaway is much more CLEAN than anything else out there. That’s it’s real advantage, so to not strive for absolute cleanliness in your preset, but also absolute transparency in your studio itself… is just throwing away the benefit of Breakaway all together.

I’m not even going to bother talking about Phase Tornado. If you can’t hear how bad it is, then you shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a broadcast audio processor.

When your listener share drops drastically, don’t blame it on Breakaway. Blame it on You.

You can fix this by taking our advice, and educating yourself a little bit. What converter are you using for outputting Breakaway for your transmitter? How have you calibrated that converter? How have you calibrated & measured your on-air signal? etc, etc…

[camclone]

Wowowowowowowoowowow!

Something has changed in my production Room….
..guesss…what!!
S P E A K E R S and H E A D P H O N E S also..

the resault :

…when i listened to my "old" "baaaaad" settings …my ears , ohh my god!
what was that!? 6 days ON AIR with that sh@@@it.
The cause of this huge distortion on MID and HIGHs was the exessive clipping with …distorted overdriven mids!
The problem was on the proccesing of sound and NOT on my chain (soundcards..tilts, cables.)

the end :

I lowered the clipping overdrives..
I changed the bass shape and drive.
i changed also the speed and power settings..
(I use an 7 band preset )

Still the loudest radio station in Crete island !! and legal! 73 KHz exactly .
But now it’s much much much cleaner.

Now you can listen for ..more than 10 minutes
( take care that 5 at 10 songs are bad recordings …so wait for 2 or 3 songs to play..) ( i still believe that 5% of distortion is becuse of the encoder..)
remember : i wanna be loud on FM so, don’t wait to hear a "reference" sound.
It’s still loud , very very loud… but clearer and bassy
mms://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm
http://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm
NEVER NEVER NEVER make sound proccesing without using good speakers like i did the last days.
JessieG one of your 7 band presets …is wowowowowowowowowow!! ..but i edited the settings to acheve loudness with more pseudo-dynamics than ever!!
Leif ..your code is wowowowowowowowow!!!!
I am sure that now i am affortable clear and loud ( don’t forget FM )

[sgeirk]

Another improvement! The eq sounds overdone. I hear less bass hole punching than before, but avoid overly eq’ing for the net feed.

[Dr.J]

Can we just categorize this post a spam? I really have no interest in listening to this "overly processed" Greek music station for "at least" 10 minutes. Just listen to the professionals, and adjust the station accordingly!!!

[camclone]

this radio station is playing greek music…so 98% of listeners are greek people. I never wanted to advertise my station here !
I just wanna go ON AIR with Windows …software…powered by intel hardware..
Anywayz.
I think i am at the right way now..
mms://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm
http://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm
Thanks everyone 🙂

p.s.
this topic was very good for …google archiving.
People who search for loudness will realise that distortion ..is a factor of loudness. except…breakaway broadcast which can do many for loudness without audible distortion IF your source is acceptably clear of course!

[sgeirk]

Hey, give the guy a break…I get the feeling that he’s trying to learn.

It still sounds too processed to me. Either way, aping the sound of an FM broadcast for the internet, is a subjective choice. It’s not something I’d do. But that’s their call. I’m not hearing obvious, in-your-face distortion right off the bat anymore. So, it’s a definite improvement.

[Author]

Posts