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carl, make sure you dont have the volume slider cranked in Windows Volume control.
i always keep mine @ 50% on all sliders – most importantly my opticle SPDIF volume. You should never have any volume control on a pc over 50%.. imoThe scale you’re using for the volume control is fine by me, Leif; I don’t really use it other than to keep my sound card input from flat-topping. Apparently the sliders in the Windows Mixer for my on-board junk audio chipset are very non-linear.
I would like to make a feature request, though. Instead of using linear scales for the input and output signals on Breakaway, use a logarithmic scale; or provide a choice and a adjustable refresh rate.
Also, programs that don’t have the ability for me to choose what sound device I want to use (i.e. Media Player Classic, web browsers) will mute the volume control in the Windows Mixer automatically. I have to un-mute it regularly so I can hear the audio from those programs. I can still hear audio from programs that allow me to choose the sound device, even while the Breakaway’s ‘Wave’ selection is muted.
Great product, though.
Here’s an odd unexpected behavior you can ignore if you want, as it’s not very important.
On a dual monitor system, when the Breakaway window extends from one screen to the next and is minimized, when the window returns Breakaway is not placed back where it was, but its placement is forced to be positioned exclusively onto one of the screens.
There’s also a limit on how large one can make the Breakaway window, and with both monitors, the virtual monitor size (width) exceeds that limit.
Carl
Howdy!
Carl, it’s true that some preset changes and bypass/unbypass causes a click. The Bypass/Un-bypass click is a performance tradeoff — when you bypass, it really shuts down the core and stops processing, and clears the look-ahead buffers inside the core, thus there’s a moment of silence when you un-bypass. The preset change causes a click when going from for example a 6-band to a 7-band preset, but not between two 6-band presets. I never saw it as a problem since it’s not really something one does all the time — I figured it was worth it for the lower CPU usage.
I think I know what’s going on on your dual-monitor system. I use dual-monitor myself for developing, so Breakaway does support it.
When you’ve minimized the window, how it comes back depends on how you bring it back. If you bring it back by clicking on the Breakaway window button on the taskbar, it comes back right where you left it. If you bring it back by double-clicking on the icon in the tray, you’re executing the "Find Window" function, which makes sure that the main window is visible. How I intended for it to work is, imagine that you’ve dragged the breakaway window 99% outside of the screen.. Let’s say you drag it by an inside corner (not resizing) and pull most of the window outside the screen. No amount of clicking on the taskbar button will make it visible, cause you’ll only see a corner, but double-clicking on the tray icon makes it fully visible.There is indeed an imposed window size limit — it’s 2560 pixels, and it comes from the oscilloscope. If the window is made larger than that, there aren’t enough pixels in the audio waveform, and you start seeing gaps. Yes, it would be possible to write an oscilloscope that interpolates the data, but come on 🙂.. My goal was an oscilloscope with subpixel precision rendering, anti-aliasing, digital phosphor emulation, proper auto-triggering for music, and phosphor persistence — and it had to be FAST enough to work on any computer without people feeling it’s wasting CPU power. As such, I succeeded, and it’s pretty much alone in its class. Making the window infinitely wide didn’t make the list, sorry 🙂. I made sure it can be maximized on the largest displays available (30 inch LCDs), which are indeed exactly 2560 pixels wide.
I suppose I could write code so that the oscilloscopes are displayed side by side if the window is made that large, but… I think we’d better draw the line somewhere 😉.
KC4RAE, I’m not sure I understand — what do you mean by linear scales for the input or output signals? Do you mean the VU meters?
The muting, now that sounds like a real problem. Can you explain more exactly what happens, and how to reproduce it? I’ve never seen it happen.
Hydro, I don’t see a problem in having the windows volume sliders cranked, in fact I personally always turn the windows sound card output slider all the way up and use the Breakaway control instead, since it’s so much more easily accessible and more accurate to adjust. Even if the sound card’s volume range is too high, and allows distortion at the highest levels, turning Breakaway’s volume down will avoid it. Breakaway uses a very high quality noise-shaped dithering algorithm to maintain quality even at very low levels, so it shouldn’t cause any problems.
Thank you, All, for your feedback! 🙂
Best regards,
///Leifhydro, I tried lowering the windows sound card mixer volumes but did not notice any difference. I think the biggest difference is using other drivers besides Direct Sound (Safe mode). But I have in the past had problems with optical SPDIF when I had the TV sound going into my computer. I will try lowering its mixer input volume next time I use it. Thank you for the suggestion – I wouldn’t have thought of doing that, myself.
Leif, you are exactly right about the restore/find window confusion – I had half of the scope on the left monitor and half on the right (when I discovered the size limit) and then minimized Breakaway to get back to work. When I restored it via the taskbar or task changer, it returned to exactly where I had it. I appreciate the “Find Window” feature, now that I know it’s there.
And certainly 2560 pixels ought to be enough for anyone; I personally don’t need it any larger (although I was having fun with one scope per monitor trying to get it to fill both screens). The interface is very beautifully-designed and the feature I’d like is to be able to change the phosphor color. Is that easy to do?
Honestly, if there were only a command-line interface the product would still be worth the money. My only real complaint at this point is the noise when changing between band numbers and bypass. If there were an increase in CPU use to cover those transitions even with just a sort of cross fade from one to the other, it would help the perception of a smooth change. The reason I even mention it is because I often have the sound playing at high volume and change presets or disable it depending on the type of source material. In the broadcaster version it would be more than just the person in front of the computer who would notice, but then again, the settings would not often be changed while it was processing output. I’m interested in a product use somewhere between Breakaway Personal and Breakway Broadcaster, for web streaming and live DJing, and more than likely would change those settings on-the-fly.
Breakaway already performs audio miracles — sounding many times better than any hardware compressor/limiter costing many times more. You can quote me on that, as I’ve tried tweaking hardware, and can’t get results like Breakaway’s?
Carl
[quote author=”Leif”]…
KC4RAE, I’m not sure I understand — what do you mean by linear scales for the input or output signals? Do you mean the VU meters?
The muting, now that sounds like a real problem. Can you explain more exactly what happens, and how to reproduce it? I’ve never seen it happen.
…[/quote]Yes, I am referring to the VU meters. Currently the input and output signals are measured in meters using a linear scale. What about measuring input and output signals using a logarithmic scale? Just an idea and I wanted to shoot that by you for consideration.
As far as the muting problem goes:
I’m still beginning to understand the problem, but I believe I see the issue. However explaining it where you can understand what I’m trying to say might be a problem. 😀
It seems that if I pass audio through Breakaway using a program with Kernel streaming outputted to Breakaway 1, the mute checkbox on the Breakaway 1 mixer is unaffected, but using the mute function on Breakaway itself does mute the audio regardless, like it’s suppose to. Not an issue.
If I pass audio through it using a program that is DirectSound, it may or may not mute the Breakaway 1 Wave, but not Breakaway. When it does mute, I have to go to the little speaker icon in the system tray and uncheck the mute checkbox under ‘Wave’. Everything passes through Breakaway fine after that.
I’ll try to find out why it mutes audio only sometimes. I think one problem is that stupid Flash browser plug-in for Firefox (never will like Flash video). It would be nice if every program that passes audio in this system uses Kernel streaming instead of DirectSound. I don’t like DirectSound either. 🙂
Let me know what more you need. I’m happy to assist.
Philip C Walker
Taylor, Texas[quote author=”hydro”]carl, make sure you dont have the volume slider cranked in Windows Volume control.
i always keep mine @ 50% on all sliders – most importantly my opticle SPDIF volume. You should never have any volume control on a pc over 50%.. imo[/quote]On this wonderful cheap trash heap on-board audio deal I have, the difference of 50% output and 100% output is not a whole lot. 🙂
Philip,
I think I understand now.. That’s a very strange problem! I’ll ask the Virtual Audio Cable guy whether he’s ever heard of anything like it — it definitely shouldn’t be happening.
Regarding the meters though, they *are* logarithmic! I promise! 🙂
Here’s an example of a linear meter:
If you look closely (and with a bit of imagination / interpolation), you’ll see that -6 to 0dB on the scale uses twice as much space as -12 to -6, which again uses twice as much space as -18 to -12. This means the meter responds to voltage in a linear fashion, because as you may know, to gain 6dB you must double the voltage.
The meters in Breakaway are completely logarithmic. The standard unit to measure audio level logarithmically is the decibel, and as you can see, the dB units are evenly spaced across the entire length on the meter, thus following dB’s, which are a logaritmic unit.
Linear (non-logarithmic) meters such as the one above tend to be misleading, because -20 looks like it’s basically no level at all, even though -20dB is still 12 bits out of 16 in use!
It’s especially dangerous to use linear meters if working with compressors, since the meter will exaggerate the tiny amount of dynamics remaining in the signal when you get close to 0dB, thus easily causing the operator to crank things too far, if going by the meter without really listening. Far too many people operate in this manner, as is evident by the atrociousness that passes for CD Quality nowadays! 🙂
Anyway.. Did this clear things up? 🙂
///Leif
[quote author=”Leif”]Hi Stuart!
By audio taper, do you mean logarithmic pot as opposed to a linear pot?
It has a hybrid taper already, actually 🙂.
If it was purely linear, -6dB would be at 50%, and 0dB would be at 100%.
As it is, -12dB is at 75%.If it was purely log, we’d waste a lot of pixels at the bottom end of the scale (below -60), where we shouldn’t be listening anyway since dithering noise would become apparent.
Is the current taper a problem?
///Leif[/quote]
Sorry I guess I didn’t put it in the right terms. I guess what I really should have said is that slider should perhaps be a bit more granular. It would make it easier for those using a keyboard with rotary encoder-based volume control an easier time of adjusting the volume. Because I generally leave about 25 dB of headroom on the volume level and the fact that each detent only changes the volume by .1 dB increments, I am having to rotate the knob a good ten to make any appreciable difference in volume. Does anyone really need the precision of adjustment in .1 dB increaments?
Thanks,
Stuarti dont know guys, but when i have my windows volume cranked and i play Day of Defeat, every time i fire the k98 i get a hint of a crackle. when i lower the volume to 50% in windows i can have breakaways volume @ any level and have no crackle w/ the k98. I noticed it w/ certain mp3’s too. i bought 3 sound cards trying to fix the crackle and finally traced it down to the windows master volume.
Perhaps I need to be happy with what I have. 🙂
Thank you, though.
I have not been able to reproduce the problem as of yet. After a restart, the mute checkbox was checked and I had to uncheck it so I could listen to/watch video embeds. WinXP does not save settings after changing them. It does so during shutdown. I have to restart the machine often I think because the my brand new hard drive shuts off after fifteen minutes. As long as I’m doing something, it’s fine. After I leave it alone, the hard drive usually shuts off or the mainboard stops communicating with the hard drive and the computer stops working. So until I can get that problem fixed, it might be a while before I find out what the real problem is.
I’ll try my best. Breakaway is the solution I’ve been looking for, for a long time. Finally, someone did it. Thanks to you for this awesome product!
Philip
Stuart, those are *very* different terms indeed 🙂.
What you’re seeing is an artifact of how I implemented the volume control key support. When you hold down the volume up / volume down keys, acceleration increases rapidly — but when you just click the buttons, the control moves in steps of 0.1dB.
So, what I should really do, is detect if the button is being clicked at a superhuman rate (as would be the case when you’re turning a volume knob that is emulating keystrokes) and make that increase acceleration. That way you’d be able to single-step in steps of 0.1dB and yet have rapid adjustment by adjusting the knob more quickly.
First, I’ve gotta find a keyboard with a volume knob though. I’ll start looking.
Interesting, Hydro! I’ll bet it’s because multiple sounds are getting mixed, and the sum of them end up above 0dB. The reason I have never run across this is that I never play games, i just play music. You did absolutely the right thing with the volume control then, good call 🙂.
Philip, which player is causing the problem again?
///Leif
—edit—
This usually has to do with programs that rely on the Wave output in the mixer. If I adjust the volume on the program it will instead adjust the volume on the mixer instead because these programs do not have their own volume. Apparently this is a Windows issue, which is what I thought of it to begin with. However because of the constant restarts (warm reboots using the reset button) Windows will not keep settings in the mixer, therefore not ever saving settings and muting wave everytime. If there’s a way that everything could work in Kernel streaming, this wouldn’t affect it at all. Not every program uses Kernel streaming, like web browsers for instance.
Philip
In fact astonishingly few programs use Kernel Streaming — I only know of a handful, besides my own software: 3rd party Kernel Streaming plug-in for winamp, the ASIO4ALL driver, Foobar 2000 player.
You’re absolutely right about the volume control issue regarding programs just modifying the system volume control — this is a big contributing factor to why that volume control gets disabled when you install Breakaway — the pipeline is supposed to ignore it 🙂.
///Leif
quote :It would make it easier for those using a keyboard with rotary encoder-based volume control an easier time of adjusting the volume. Because I generally leave about 25 dB of headroom on the volume level and the fact that each detent only changes the volume by .1 dB increments, I am having to rotate the knob a good ten to make any appreciable difference in volume. Does anyone really need the precision of adjustment in .1 dB increaments?If there were a scale modifier, such as holding shift key – to change the .1 to 1 db. that’d help. I have to do a lot of spinning of the mouse wheel as well.
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